3a solution from Finpension [2024]

Radicant for example (maybe banking licence required, not sure FP has it yet). Alternatively, they could offer us to invest the 1% in a free money market fund. But yeah, we’re talking peanuts here :grin:

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Yeah for an investor it’s 1% of 1%, that’s negligible.

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Sure, I was only responding to the “why hold cash” part.

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Mate you’re in a FIRE forum, wars have started for less :stuck_out_tongue:

Every penny counts!

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However, for Indian funds an individual attribution of taxes seems to work:

“For NRIs, TDS is deducted at the time of redemption of mutual fund units . The rate of TDS depends on the type of mutual fund and the duration of the investment. For equity-oriented funds, the TDS rate is 10% for long-term capital gains (LTCG) and 15% for short-term capital gains (STCG).”

So I still not quite get how exactly CSIF EM calculates its “general” redemption spread for all fund investors, regardless of their individual duration of investment? Do they differentiate between STCG and LTCG taxes? If so, what’s the relevant time period / start date for LTCG?

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I think you are talking about two different things

Indian Mutual fund investments for NRIs are taxed simply based on buy and sell price of mutual fund units. The capital gains is based on that. It’s not based on CGT that is triggered when mutual fund sells the underlying shares of companies.

However for Foreign funds or ETFs , the situation works a bit different. They always have to pay CGT when they sell underlying shares of companies.

Most likely since CSIF only charges at time of redemption , they should have a way to estimate this value. It’s not that difficult because they just need to know the CGT per unit at time of purchase and at time of redemption. Why they choose to assign a specific percentage to redeeming shareholders instead of actual value is not clear to me. Maybe they always want to benefit the remaining shareholders rather than leaving members

See article by Franklin which used a different approach and simply adjust NAV for the provisional CGT

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Thanks. I guess what I don’t get: Isn’t this very prohibitive for potential new investors? Why would they invest in a fund that has already accrued significant CGT / redemption spread?

Also, couldn’t you game the systems by switching between CSIF and the other EM funds? Sell CSIF at low CGT, buy Swisscanto EM, and then reverse?

I think for investor in the end impact is same because the principle is not changing. In one fund the NAV is already reduced and in other one the exit fees is accounting for that

So on average it should be fine. But the issue could be that for some individuals it might be negative . This could be particularly costs during rebalancing if transactions result in net outflow

In order to reduce this headache I simple excluded EM from my 3a and replaced it with US. I invest in EM using taxable accounts

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Seems like a good idea! Should i wait with my redemption until the redemption spread decreases, or could I potentially wait forever for that to happen?

I think if you check the value of EM fund , most likely it increase 7-8% since this discussion started. So the more you wait, the more impact to switch :slight_smile:

Just a suggestion
If you want to minimise your redemption costs, my suggestion would be to do it on Monday which comes after the payday. Most likely during that week FP receives lot on incoming flows for 1E funds and that could mean that there isn’t really any redemption at fund level. They invest money on Tuesday for the funds that credited by Monday every week

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Looks like they read your comment and took it personally:

https://finpension.ch/en/pillar-3a-account/

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Just received the email from Finpension regarding the 100% cash account :smiley:

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Looks like they’re starting to reap the benefits of their (recent) FINMA authorisation as a securities firm (Wertpapierhaus).

@finpension

Will you have the same offer for free assets? I.e. a “savings” account for taxable cash with SNB rate minus your management fee?

I’m not sure, but don’t you need a banking licence first? As @ skyw4lker mentioned, they are only licensed as a securities firm.

Wouldn’t that bring the interest to just about the same as a standard savings account with UBS, PostFinance etc?

A securities firm is allowed to hold cash accounts for clients when its connected to settling securities trades (art. 44 par. 2 FinIA). Thats of course not as broad as a banking licence. So there are limits in comparison to a banking licence, which is why they are also pursuing a full fledged banking licence.
It also says in the press statement that the cash accounts are held at regular banks (ie. licenced banks).
;

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Great news! I can be pesky :wink:

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Looks like its better*:

Seems very fair to me, well done. :+1:

*For 3a; other settings that you might have referred to could be different.

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Is it just me who does not find this new offering particularly interesting? It just looks nice at a first glympse, but after I have read that they charge fees on cash, it is net (currently 0.61%) way lower than most banks / other 3a apps (Viac: 0.95%, Truewealth: 1.25%). At least Truewealth does not charge fees on it. Or do I miss something?