27 y/o looking for career advice

I would say it depends what sort of direction are you planning to go:
Web development, data analysis/science, general purpose scripting/engineering, something else?

One idea (which I am actually also considering myself, to play around with :smiley:) could be to try and reproduce the visualization from this post: Coronavirus: when do we reach the bottom of the dip?.
From scratch.
That would entail:

  • Finding the data source online, fetching it and processing
  • Prepare the data for the viz
  • Build the visualization
  • Build the web app to host it, and make it interactive (e.g. with some filters for the data at the back)

In essence, find a topic you are passionate about and try to create something presentable (people love visuals).
Because it will keep your drive to complete it up a bit longer than some “obligatory” project you might get at the uni/course. :slight_smile:

Bonus points: If you aim to get into financial/economics industry, this idea above could win you some.


Personal (tiny) example - a friend wanted to reduce the pain of checking each individual stock at https://www.stock2own.com/, for some “value-based” metrics.
We discussed a bit and I decided to make him (us) a simple screener on top of it.
A couple of days later, ended up with this: https://dbucar.shinyapps.io/s2oscreener.
Halted for now, and could use some more work to “prettify” and make some nicer visuals; but it serves the purpose.

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How did the exams go? I’m going to guess that since you’re still in track for a magna cum laude, that went well (sure hope it did). :slight_smile:

Just a disclaimer, I’m not a specialist and have no experience in the ecomonic fields, nor with academic job pursuits, so take everything I write with a grain of salt. Also, this is going to be a wall of text and I don’t know how much of it, if any, will be actionable, so feel free to stop reading whenever you want.

Focus on the future: where are you going? How are you achieving that? What in your personality and/or past experience give you that ability? If you can identify what they’ll think of as a weak point and turn it around in your narrative before they ask, that’s a bonus.

I’d not talk too much about what I’ve learnt, I’d let them ask about it and be ready to answer any question. I’d rather focus on vision, what you are building. That’s a premium they won’t find in anybody else. You’ll probably “have” to explain the switch from philosophy to economics, that’s easily done by telling them of your drive, what brought you there (in economics) while embedding the why of your philosophical degree and what it brings you that others don’t have into it. Bonus points if it’s geared toward a soft skill useful in their business/research (social ethics, personal ethics (you can mention some of your favorite thinkers, my own drive would have been in Marc Aurelius’ stoicism and a mix of Rousseau and Ben Franklin)).

2 cents example: “I’m an observant person, growing up, I would watch the people around me and wonder what made us act the way we do. What drives us, as human beings and as a society? Why do we get out of the bed in the morning and act the way we do? Philosophy brought me that, but as you can guess, while philosophizing brings great life and global thinking abilities, it’s a hard trade to make a living of. That’s why I have pursued my other passion and am now postulating to join your team.”

Much like market timing, you craft it in hindsight but tell it as if you had aimed for it while doing it. What are the data points in your life? How can you link them together to make it attractive while still aligning with what they’ll discover of you working with you (you don’t want to craft an illusion that’d be dispelled later on, while you are definitely putting lipstick on your life, you want your life to still be recognizable under that)? Be sincere, but show drive. Focus it on things your prospective employer is seeking (clues that you’re in for the long run, social skills, craftiness, ability to stay professional in the face of difficulties, etc.).

I’m a geoscientist who’s turned toward engineering. There’s not a single diploma that I’ve done in the regular time (make it a year longer whenever I’m involved) yet, my CV has things like political experiences, social groups and organizations leadership and a couple of names of people on whom I’ve made a good impression with their number so they can be called if they have question on my work ethics and personality (make sure the people you cite are ok with that. Right now, it can be some of your professors. Later on, it’ll probably be work relations). It’s not about the people themselves and what they can say, it’s about displaying that you’ve made a good enough impression that people would stand up for you, and that you’ve not afraid to have them say whatever they would about you. When I speak about my experiences, engineering and shaping my environment is my drive. That requires knowledge of said environment, which is fulfilled by being curious and dabbling in many things. That knowledge allows me to find solutions outside my field to apply lateral knowledge to the problems I am facing, understanding people’s needs and knowing how to address them to get their help on my own projects. Much like water (I’ve worked in hydraulics), I find my way and don’t let obstacles stop me.

The focus point is being honest, finding your drive and telling them about it. Passionate people exude an energy that is hard to resist, even when you’re a serious professor/business person in a suit and tie. Find what makes you passionate when you talk to your friends, sharing a beer, and tell that story.

I’d ask myself if I want to work in an academic position (keep on with the research assistant positions) or in the industry (internships add real value, both in terms of experience and networking. In my view, that’s worth making your master thesis 3 months longer if it comes to that). In my experience, 50% jobs are very hard to find (I’ve spent my Master searching for one to do beside my studies). 80% might be more feasible.

Oh yeah, Coronavirus. I had (serioulsy) forgotten. Yep, you gotta adapt and make do with what you have. Kuddos for doing it.

I’m with @dbu’s excellent advice. Find something you’d be interested to do, do it, show it. Anything related to tracking your favorite stocks/indexes, expenses or strategies would do. Also, if you can make use of it during your master thesis, that’s a bonus: there are deadlines and quality expectations on it so it should give you extra motivation to get at it even when you’re tired and think you’ve done enough.

Also, unless it’s a very specific paper (make that a MIT diploma), in my opinion, papers are useless and I wouldn’t want to work for someone who puts real faith in them. That’s just me, though. I’ve spoken with a HR specialist that told me doing a Goethe B2 would look good on my CV so some people put value in it (I’m sticking to my view both that B2 level in a language isn’t enough to make it really useful and that displaying the skill is worth a whole wagon more than having a paper saying you have it).

You seem to be doing really well and your drive is tangible, I’m not worried you’ll find your way and convince the people around you that you’re a good fit for whatever they want to do. It won’t always be easy and you may have to stumble a few times to finally break through (or it might work on the first try) but I’m sure you’ll rock whatever you set your mind to.

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Hi everyone

I am soon going to interview for an internship for the government.

The internship looks very interesting. I’m surprised that I got this far into the process and I still think I’m not very likely to get it. But now I’m trying to prepare as well as possible.

Do you maybe have any advice on these questions I face:

On the interview process:

  • How are such internship interviews different than normal interviews? Is there some specific advice that goes beyond what you can find for ‘normal’ interviews?

  • Does anyone know what the culture and dress code at swiss government institutions is? The communication thus far was not incredibly formal but I find it hard to judge as a lot of it was in french. Am I fine with dressing business casual? Something more dressy? Maybe even suit and tie?

General questions:

  • what is the mobility between government jobs and business jobs in switzerland? Is it easy to work a couple of years at the govt and then change to the private industry? (What about vice versa?)

  • How would I be regarded for private business jobs after such a 1 year internship? Would it be similar to changing industries? Or would they regard it as an extension of my studies, that doesn’t bring a lot of additional ‘real-life’ skills for their business?

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Congrats!

I’d say that, for your questions, it depends on the office and your position/job. I’ve got a couple family members working for the federal government but I’ll not be in touch with them for the next two weeks (holidays). Let me know if your interview is after July 12th and I can get an answer before it’s too late.

What office would you be working for?

Would you have contacts with the following:

  • External people (officials, state/town administrations, businesses, …)?
  • High ranking people in the administration/government?

How big and businesslike would your team be?

I’m working with people from the OFEV/BAFU. They’re wearing semi-casual suits (dark pants (can be black jeans), dark shoes (can be field efficient shoes), nice shirt, no tie, suit jacket). Got a cousin working with diplomats, it’s suits and ties all the way for them. My guess is that some jobs would allow for more casual attire. IT comes to mind though several offices would probably not fret it. When I’m not sure, the semi-casual attire gets my vote, it shows that I can take care of my looks without making things uncomfortable if everybody I meet in the building is dressing casually. If you’re pursuing an internship in finances, I’d go the extra mile and put the tie on. I’m no specialist of the matter, though, so you may want to follow advice from someone in your field more than mine.

I’d say mobility depends on your internship. It can be great for networking if you get to meet people who could be future clients or employers, less so if you’ve got a purely internal position without outside contacts. If you’d be working on academic pursues (developing models / strategizing), that could be of use for other research positions in private businesses. You’ll also have to asses whether the skills you’ll acquire would be of use in the private sector or not.

How that internship would be seen on your curriculum vitae would probably depend on the office, internship position and things you’ve been tasked with. Having connections inside the federal administration would probably be a plus for some private businesses (banks, for example, there again, depending on the office/people you’d be working with).

Please, note that I’m only extrapolating without first hand experience and take everything I write with a grain of salt. People in your industry would probably be able to give more accurate advice.

Edit: I’ve just realized that I’ve run with the assumption that you were a man. If you’re a woman, then I have no idea of what is considered formal, semi-formal and casual dress codes but I’d still aim for either semi or full formal, depending on the office and nature of the internship.

Dear Wolverine

Thank you very much for your response! :slight_smile:

That’s a very kind offer, however I’ll already have the interview in the next days.

(I have no problem with anyone on here knowing the details, but I’d rather have them not easily searchable for the moment. Probably overthinking it :smiley: . I’ll therefore write the acronyms backwards.)

The job would be at the “O C E S” and it would be the sub-departement concerned with the organisations “D C E O” and the “TW ENTY G”. The information I received until now was rather limited and somewhat vague, that’s why I’m really exited to get to know more during the interview. The job would involve some degree of interaction with other departments, preparation of meetings for the swiss govt with the aforementioned organisations, writing economics reports and participation in some meetings in “S I R A P”.

I’m thinking that the outwards-directed work will likely require suit and tie. However, I’m assuming that most of the time will be spent doing office work in the background. From their attire I’m not able to tell, since I don’t know how to distinguish formal and informal clothing for women. (I also don’t know how big the sub-departement I’d be working in is. I’d guess at least 4 and probably not very many more.)
I don’t think it makes sense for me to go suit and tie. I’ve never worn one, would have to quickly organise one and think it would show. My plan is to go dark shoes, almost black pants and then a dress shirt or a simple classy sweater (depending on the wheather). I’m guessing that they will be more lenient for students coming in. If I was accepted to an additional round, I would try to optimize my wardrobe further.

I’m guessing your insights point into the direction that this job could be beneficial in terms of networking but possibly mainly within governement. And I’d be able to further my skills in synthesizing information for reports and other analysis. This might be useful for some jobs, but maybe not as useful as doing a more technical internship.

O

And sorry I didn’t respond to your last message!

Thank you very much for your advice, I’m thinking a lot about how to “frame” my story right now :slight_smile:

The exams went quite ok, especially considering that the lockdown was a stumbling block for me. I probably learned more about dealing with such a situation than I learned about economics, but that’s ok.

I didn’t get it.

The interview was not at all what I expected and I prepared the wrong things.
I expected them to want to know about me, my motivation, and my skills. They didn’t inquire about any of that and just posed open-ended questions with which they wanted to check my knowledge about the 20G and DCEO and Switzerland’s connection to them.

I’m a bit frustrated with myself. Because I could have answered a lot more, if I read the respective Wikipedia articles in detail (e.g. Which countries are in the 20G but not in the DCEO?).
I didn’t bother much with google-able knowledge and focused on reading some reports of the organizations and the department, to better understand how these organizations and the sub-department think.
One of the interviewers visibly lost interest after the second question I wasn’t able to answer and subsequently often gave snippy “you should really know that, you know…”-comments.

After that the situation didn’t feel salvageable anymore, oh well :slight_smile:

I’ve kind of run into a job problem that I don’t know how to navigate. Maybe one of you has an idea what I should do next?

I’ve been doing an internships for a little bit more than a year at a large company. This month the employment has come to an end. However my direct boss and I agreed upon a temporary employment for a couple of months. The pay would be at least 1/3 more than during the internship. About a month ago I got the ok and that the pay would be at least the discussed pay, that the employment was approved and I would be sent a contract.

This week I got the contract and it’s just an extension of the previous contract.
I’m not sure what went wrong, but there must have been some misunderstanding between my direct boss and his boss or between my department and HR.
Today I got the info, that it “will be close to impossible to get the discussed contract”.
They are currently looking into some alternatives, but I don’t think they’ll be able to meet the agreed upon terms.

As far as I understand, I’ve gone into a oral contract that is binding.
However, I’m not sure whether the discussed salary is binding.
I’m also not sure how binding the details are, if my direct boss promised me the job (whether he had the necessary authority to do so).
I haven’t yet stressed that there is an oral contract that they have to fulfill.

What should my next steps be? :neutral_face:
Is there some place I should turn to, if this turns into a dispute?

I wouldn’t play hard ball on that at this stage of your career especially if this is a company that you see yourself working as full time employee in the future.

I guess your boss agreed with you on “good faith” since probably other people like HR may need to decide on the budget (this is evident by the fact that the contract took some time). I don’t see any chance imposing on them the higher salary based on the verbal discussion you had (if you had signed something maybe that’s another story).

At the end of the day you are unfortunately faced with a take it or leave it situation, so up to you how you navigate from here. If I were at the same career stage as you I would probably take the job and either a) network within the company if this is a company you like (you are now semi internal so probably easier for you to land a job there vs being completely external candidate) or b) look for another job in parallel.

Even with a lower pay this job is adding to your resume and is at least paying something…

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I’d take the job but keep looking for interships or jobs at other companies.

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Sorry for what you’re going through.

Same as the others, this kind of situations unfortunately happens frequently in the places I’ve worked for (I have a history of working for shitty places, though xD). People usually take it or leave (most often leaving than staying).

Your canton should have an office dedicated to the protection of workers (search for Prud’homme or Arbeitsgericht), you could give them a call and ask for their opinion on this and what your options are if you have any doubt / feel that you could be taken advantage of.

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Sounds like a very unfortunate misunderstanding, mistakes happen, it isn’t going to make you love your company but you need to think what’s best long term for your life and career.

Would you have been happy to extend the internship if they wouldn’t have mentioned the higher pay?

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Thank you everyone for the replies.

It’s a company I don’t see myself working in for the long-term, at least for the next couple of years. So it should be option b) but I’m not very good at networking, and it is even harder when everyone is working at home. But it’s definitely something I should prioritize for the next couple of months, so thanks for the reminder! :slight_smile:

No, not really. The extended internship wouldn’t have given me any CV boost. And the pay is really quite low.
But now, they would treat it as a “normal” employment, CV-wise. So I could write that I worked a standard job, even though the contract would be the same.

Thank you very much for that hint. When I wrote my post I was looking for something exactly like this. But I think I’ll probably not be using them for this situation.
The reasons I am much less set on being combative thanwhen I wrote it:

  1. Because all of you seem to think it’s probably best to be agreeable in this situation.
  2. I am pretty sure that there is no ill will on anyone’s part. And they seem to make a serious effort to find a better solution. I am actually up to 50% that I might get the initial salary, after having talked to my boss again. We’ll see. (It’s a bit stupid really. Everyone seems to agree that money shouldn’t be the issue. But there is a system in place that restricts what salary they can offer me.)
  3. Also because I quite quickly realized, that any loss already happened. I won’t get back the 1-2 months that I didn’t spend on searching for other jobs.

One thing to note is that my prolonged internship would be against their own principles for internships. So that made me a bit upset, that HR wasn’t paying attention or simply disregarded their own principles. But being upset doesn’t help in this situation.

I’m currently 50-50 on whether I would take the job for the internship conditions. On the one hand I could use the money and the CV boost, but it would also slow the writing of my thesis to some degree.

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