# Where to find the absolutely lowest-fee index funds in Switzerland (as of August 2019)?
**URL:** https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/where-to-find-the-absolutely-lowest-fee-index-funds-in-switzerland-as-of-august-2019/2430
**Category:** Wiki
**Created:** [August 23, 2019, 11:24am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/where-to-find-the-absolutely-lowest-fee-index-funds-in-switzerland-as-of-august-2019/2430 "2019-08-23T11:24:53Z")
**Posts on this page:** 15
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@miriade](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/miriade)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/where-to-find-the-absolutely-lowest-fee-index-funds-in-switzerland-as-of-august-2019/2430/35 "2019-08-27T17:09:08Z")
> [@Gesk](#):
>
> If you take into account the higher TER of VWRL compared to VT (that you can’t buy at Degiro), and extra tax on dividends, Degiro is only cheaper under around 25-30k.
Now, let’s say I’m starting my savings into my chosen ETF from next year (2020). VT is no longer accessible for Swiss residents. So, why should I plan/take it into considerations on my calculations?
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### Author:  [@Joey](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Joey)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2019, 7:06pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/where-to-find-the-absolutely-lowest-fee-index-funds-in-switzerland-as-of-august-2019/2430/36 "2019-08-27T19:06:59Z")
> [@miriade](#):
>
> VT is no longer accessible for Swiss residents.
Thats not 100% certain I think? It looks like IB might still be able to offer it to swiss residents, we will have to see here: [US-ETFs (VT for instance) not available anymore in Switzerland?](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/us-etfs-vt-for-instance-not-available-anymore-in-switzerland/1648)
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### Author:  [@Gesk](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Gesk)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2019, 7:53am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/where-to-find-the-absolutely-lowest-fee-index-funds-in-switzerland-as-of-august-2019/2430/37 "2019-08-28T07:53:36Z")
I’m just saying that if you have 30k **today** Degiro is not so much cheaper as it seems. Obviously if you are just starting now from 0 it is not the case. As for next year we will see how things turn out.
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### Author:  [@Cortana](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Cortana)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2019, 7:57am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/where-to-find-the-absolutely-lowest-fee-index-funds-in-switzerland-as-of-august-2019/2430/38 "2019-08-28T07:57:18Z")
What will change next year?
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### Author:  [@flenker](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/flenker)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2019, 6:38pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/where-to-find-the-absolutely-lowest-fee-index-funds-in-switzerland-as-of-august-2019/2430/39 "2019-08-28T18:38:06Z")
> [@miriade](#):
>
> Now, let’s say I’m starting my savings into my chosen ETF from next year (2020). VT is no longer accessible for Swiss residents. So, why should I plan/take it into considerations on my calculations?
Fake news. It’s been disproven time and time again.
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### Author:  [@San\_Francisco](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/San_Francisco)
#### Post date: [August 28, 2019, 7:13pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/where-to-find-the-absolutely-lowest-fee-index-funds-in-switzerland-as-of-august-2019/2430/40 "2019-08-28T19:13:09Z")
> [@flenker](#):
>
> Fake news. It’s been disproven time and time again.
I think it’s certainly _possible_ they will discontinue their access to it. Even if they don’t strictly have to do it or if it’s a grey area legally, to just be err on the side of caution (and no, that one e-mail from the tax authorities quoted here on the forum proves neither point, though I commend the forum user for actually asking the question to the relevant authorities).
On the other hand, IBKR is probably big and professional enough to not just lump in Switzerland in with the rest of the EU, and due their due diligence on what they can offer here.
In any case, I’d question if all the thought and discussion that goes into this is all that worthwhile.
1. You don’t have to sell previous purchases
2. You can continue to make investment in VWRL instead of VT with the same broker at IBKR
3. If you’re really on the fence which one to buy, it’s just 4 more months till that ominous Swiss law comes into force and we’ll definitely see IBKR’s reaction (or its lack thereof)
4. Even if you err on your choice of the U.S. ETF, and you feel or actually had to switch to the IE ETF, how costly would your mistake be? I mean, how much does IBKR charge? [Half a cent per share](https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=1590&p=stocks1)? Wouldn’t that just some **70 USD per million dollars invested** in VT?
If IBKR _did_ discontinue access to VT, I’d have no qualms about buying it til then (only question would be, if a small position that I can’t add to, is worth the hassle in the tax declaration).
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### Author:  [@flenker](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/flenker)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2019, 7:56am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/where-to-find-the-absolutely-lowest-fee-index-funds-in-switzerland-as-of-august-2019/2430/41 "2019-08-29T07:56:34Z")
> [@San\_Francisco](#):
>
> I think it’s certainly _possible_ they will discontinue their access to it. Even if they don’t strictly have to do it or if it’s a grey area legally, to just be err on the side of caution (and no, that one e-mail from the tax authorities quoted here on the forum proves neither point, though I commend the forum user for actually asking the question to the relevant authorities).
Again, Fake news. It’s not a grey area. The laws are crystal clear.
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### Author:  [@Kaps](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Kaps)
#### Post date: [August 29, 2019, 8:21am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/where-to-find-the-absolutely-lowest-fee-index-funds-in-switzerland-as-of-august-2019/2430/42 "2019-08-29T08:21:02Z")
Apparently not that clear since IBKR recently stated that they will “most probably” apply in Switzerland the same restrictions that were set forth with PRIIPs regarding investments in ETF, ETNs and Mutual funds for EEA based clients.
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### Author:  [@Joey](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Joey)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2019, 4:58am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/where-to-find-the-absolutely-lowest-fee-index-funds-in-switzerland-as-of-august-2019/2430/43 "2019-08-30T04:58:31Z")
Do you have that statement?
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### Author:  [@San\_Francisco](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/San_Francisco)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2019, 5:25am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/where-to-find-the-absolutely-lowest-fee-index-funds-in-switzerland-as-of-august-2019/2430/44 "2019-08-30T05:25:22Z")
[See here](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/swiss-might-lose-access-to-us-domiciled-etfs-in-2020-what-are-you-going-to-do-about-it/2327/26)
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### Author:  [@Gesk](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Gesk)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2019, 5:47am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/where-to-find-the-absolutely-lowest-fee-index-funds-in-switzerland-as-of-august-2019/2430/45 "2019-08-30T05:47:22Z")
I would hardly call this a “statement from IBKR” and it is not set in stone (yet?).
Anyway I hope they don’t apply these restrictions.
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### Author:  [@miriade](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/miriade)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2019, 5:29pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/where-to-find-the-absolutely-lowest-fee-index-funds-in-switzerland-as-of-august-2019/2430/46 "2019-08-30T17:29:38Z")
How about: Financial Department (Swiss)
[https://www.efd.admin.ch/efd/en/home/themen/wirtschaft--waehrung--finanzplatz/finanzmarktpolitik/fidleg-finig/fb-fidleg-finig.html](https://www.efd.admin.ch/efd/en/home/themen/wirtschaft--waehrung--finanzplatz/finanzmarktpolitik/fidleg-finig/fb-fidleg-finig.html)
“Financial service providers are required by law to give clients appropriate explanations and advice. The two main client segments are retail clients and professional clients. Uniform rules are provided for with regard to the prospectus duty, with simplifications envisaged for SMEs. A key information document (KID) is now to be supplied for financial instruments offered to retail clients. The KID should enable clients to make informed investment decisions and genuinely compare various financial instruments in a simple and understandable way.”
So if VT does not provide KID it is not allowed, unless you fulfill the “non retail” criteria
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### Author:  [@San\_Francisco](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/San_Francisco)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2019, 7:43pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/where-to-find-the-absolutely-lowest-fee-index-funds-in-switzerland-as-of-august-2019/2430/47 "2019-08-30T19:43:11Z")
Instead of the short explanatory summary, why don’t we consult the letter of the law?
[Latest text (that seems to have been) for final vote](https://www.parlament.ch/centers/eparl/curia/2015/20150073/Schlussabstimmungstext%201%20NS%20D.pdf) that I could find (art. 9):
_Bei der **persönlichen** Empfehlung von Finanzinstrumenten stellen die Finanzdienstleister der Privatkundin oder dem Privatkunden zusätzlich das Basisinformationsblatt zur Verfügung, sofern ein solches für das empfohlene Finanzinstrument zu erstellen ist (Art. 58 und 59). Bei einem zusammengesetzten Finanzinstrument ist nur für dieses ein Basisinformationsblatt zur Verfügung zu stellen._
_Kein Basisinformationsblatt muss zur Verfügung gestellt werden, wenn die Dienstleistung ausschliesslich in der **Ausführung** oder Übermittlung von Kundenaufträgen besteht, ausser wenn bereits ein Basisinformationsblatt für das Finanzinstrument vorhanden ist._
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### Author:  [@ChickenFat](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/ChickenFat)
#### Post date: [August 30, 2019, 9:49pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/where-to-find-the-absolutely-lowest-fee-index-funds-in-switzerland-as-of-august-2019/2430/48 "2019-08-30T21:49:23Z")
A point that has not yet been discussed over and over:
IB msy also restrict the access in the first place because it is probably easier for them, but after a while they may come back and revert their decision depending on
. How many customes complain
. What the options of these customers are (do swissquote, saxo, cornertrader, … restrict the access?)
. How hard it is to change their software
The one request I made to IB was formulated as a question (I couldn’t find an index fund and I thought I am too stupid) was answered immediately and generously (they made the fund available for me). So I am full of hope.
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### Author:  [@Dr.PI](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Dr.PI)
#### Post date: [April 15, 2023, 9:32pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/where-to-find-the-absolutely-lowest-fee-index-funds-in-switzerland-as-of-august-2019/2430/49 "2023-04-15T21:32:33Z")
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