Thanks for your answer. As you might notice I’m a novice when it comes to buying gold.
I believe I will be leaving Switzerland during the end of next year, back to my homecountry which is a EU member.
That’s why I thought it would be wise to buy physical gold that can be kept in a safe deposit box for now. Later when I move I believe I have three options:
I can choose to leave the gold in the safe deposit box(nice to have some value stored in another country then my homecountry)
2.Sell it before I move.
Take the gold out from the safe deposit box and bring it with me.
Regarding number 3, is this even allowed? If its allowed, is it even worth the hassle?
Regarding point 3: Yes, you have every right to take your gold with you. But you should declare it at customs and show proof of where the money used to buy it came from. This will keep it “white” and prevent possible issues both at the border and in the future (tax issues, for example). Check into whether the country you go to charges customs duties or VAT for gold. As far as I know many European countries do not.
If you opt for number 1 (keeping your gold in Switzerland): Make sure to declare it properly for tax purposes in the country you live in to prevent legal issues in the future. Switzerland has traditionally been a pretty safe place to store wealth, so that’s an argument for storing it here.
Swiss banks generally require you to keep an account with them in order to keep a safe deposit box. In this case, look into possibe non-resident fees for bank accounts, as these may nix your investment. You can find out more here:
Alternatives for non-residents who want to keep bullion in Switzerland but can’t or don’t want to keep a Swiss bank account include non-bank safe deposit boxes and bonded warehouses. The first option is generally more economical for gold. The second can make sense for silver/palladium/platinum. You can find basic info here:
Another thought: if you have a gold bar worth more than the threshold for money laundering checks, how does the sale happen? Cash? Or are you forced to accept an electronic transfer to a bank? How to declare something that may have been inherited and not seen the light of day in a long while, let alone have found its way on a tax declaration, ever?
Looks like we spend a lot of thoughts how to get physical gold but are a bit in the dark when it comes to selling it again.
That’s quite “simple”, Nachdeklaration at the time of inheriting it. An heir pays penalty tax going back 3 years (ie the Vermögensteuer, ie not much), instead of 10 years if you had just been hiding it. An heir pays no fine, if can’t have known about it and openly declares it.
Of course you can’t come years after finding out aboit it & inheriting it.
So my girlfriend is having her birthday next month, she makes a quit decent amount of money but manages to spend it all … ah women, that’s why we love you.
Anyways ! She is interested about some of the investment I do and I tought it would be nice to gift her some gold/silver bars/coins. Not kg tough don’t visit our appartment please
On internet and some of the “buy gold shops” I visited the sell price was very different from the buy price. Total difference (spread + fees) is anywhere between 10 to 14% that’s huge for such assets.
I mean gold made 8.85% in last 3 years where silver lost 10.9% so I really don’t see why people make such investments.
So where do you buy your gold and whith which spread ? From what I read Bank migros seems good but I dont have any bank account there so can I qualify ?
Where should I buy it with minimum spread and quite easy ?
Hi @Mihoudlx,
go with established coins of one ounce and buy at one of the big sellers in Switzerland: Proaurum or Philoro.
Some things you may consider:
Spread for smaller bars and coins is significantly higher below 20 g / 1/2 ounce units.
At the same time, at an ounce, each individual bar/coin is not too expensive (currently 1900 CHF).
Gold coins look nicer than bars (yes, subjective).
Established coins such as Kruger Rand, Maple Leaf, and Viennese Gold Philharmonic are, well, established, so your conversion to cash may be simpler than for bars of exotic coins.
Both suppliers mentioned above are well-established and have a broad portfolio, so you won’t have to buy from several sources. (I’m not affiliated with either of them; there may also be other suitable suppliers).
Gold is difficult to source sustainably or ethically. If you care about that, your choice of suppliers and bars/coins is significantly reduced.
Cheers,
J.
PS This table illustrates the possible spread for gold across bars/coins, weight and suppliers:
Supplier
Bar (1 g)
Bar (50 g)
Bar (100 g)
Coin (1/4 ounce)
Coin ( 1/2 ounce)
Coin (1 ounce)
Anlagegold24
15-17
2-3
1
6-9
4-6
2
ESG Edelmetall-Service
11-12
1-2
1-2
10-12
7-8
4-6
Philoro
11-6
2
1
9-11
4-6
2-3
Pro Aurum
18–21
2-5
2-4
10-14
10-11
5-6
Solit Gruppe
16-19
2
1-2
9
7
4
This is from a Finanztest survey from late 2019/early 2020, i. e. for German customers and not at current prices. But I don’t find any current data on spreads for Swiss investors, and the basic princpile (smaller units → higher spreads) still holds true.
I find Gold.ch a useful resource for comparing the bigger dealers. You will notice that markups above the spot price can be very different between different coins and bar weights. As a general rule, the heavier the weight, the smaller the markup, but the popularity of the denomination also plays a role (sometimes the markup for 1oz bars is smaller than the markups for heavier weights in less popular weight denominations). Gold.ch shows the markup above the spot price for each item, which I find useful. Of course, you should also take purity into account.
If you travel outside of Switzerland often, it can be worth checking similar comparison sites in the countries you travel to. For example, sometimes prices charged by the same dealer in Germany are lower than the Swiss prices.
Side question: Is there a difference between production years for coins? I have a friend in Italy that collects them and I was wondering if it makes sense to also check that.
My experience with Gold is that Spreads are an issue. On Silver, there is further the VAT issue. My conclusion is that I no longer buy things physical as ETF are simply cheaper. Was a pain to sell all physical assets actually.
When you think about it - with 0.2% TER and a Spread of 2%, you can hold your ETF for a while until it becomes more expensive. Clearly, the ETF will look less nice as jewelery and it won’t protection you from a doomsday scenario - but hey who would want to think along these lines?
Yes, the value for a specific year can depend on the number of coins produced. An example is the Chinese gold panda; mintage numbers varied quite a lot (see here) many years ago.
For collectors, the grading of the coin quality by an agency (NGC or PCGS) also strongly influences the price.
If your goal is to participate in developments in the gold price, then physical gold is rarely the cheapest or the most convenient vehicle.
Physical gold is the better choice for very long-term investing (in which case the spread is compensated by the absence of investment costs like TERs, etc.) and long-term wealth preservation (tangible assets are resistant to changes in financial and political landscapes, unlike contracts that rely on legal structures).
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