Can you elaborate on the marginal tax rate?
I’m in the same situation (I can contribute 8, 9.25 or 12.25%, my employer 13.2% in any case) and wondering if the less contribution is not better but can’t wrap my head around it…
Here is how I estimate my Marginal tax rate:
- Go to Comparis ch tax calculator and enter your approx income - does not need to be precise. Write down the tax. Example 100k income and 20k taxes
- Repeat but enter your salary reduced by 1k CHF. Example 99k income and 19.6k taxes
The marginal tax rate in the example is 40% (=400/1000). Every 1000 CHF contributed to 2nd pillar would result in approx 400 CHF less taxes paid in that year.
Remember, taxes are payable when you take out the 2nd pillar. In Switzerland a reduced rate is applied. If you are resident of another country at the time you may have to pay taxes there.
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The tax tables are available.
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This is only for the federal income tax. It’s a very incomplete picture.
A more comprehensive table is here:
If you want it more accurate, you need to calculate yourself. Or maybe someone has a tax calculator that does the calculation for you.
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Ah indeed I’m on mobile so harder to check. I’m fairly sure theres an estv doc with a summary for all cantons as well (but yes that one is only federal).
They haven’t “give” it to you, but credited to your account that they manage anyway.
But they are not businesses 
! Or, let’s say, depending what pension fund you have, their goal is not exactly to earn performance fees by taking investment risks with your money.
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What does it change? I FIRE tomorrow and take it with me…
It’s not the point how you call them. Fact, that their accumulated profit/losses are not distributed outright. More thinking what estimate I should put to my future NW growth in respective to 2nd pillar. Cap it to 1% which is mandatory, right?
You can count it with 1% or with a historical yield credited to pension accounts, not the portfolio yield.
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What I do is use the tax software used for filling taxes from the previous year (or even this years) and play with the numbers. That way I get pretty much the exact amount (assuming all my deductions are valid as they have always been so far).
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That’s your own fault for not having 10 kids and getting your money’s worth! 
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Can’t wait for year’s end 2025 when we all will be counting our beans and finding out what the real portfolio performance was in CHF terms.
Drum roll 
My company’s pension fund (pillar 2) performance is already in: 7.6%
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Where do you work so I can apply? Mine guarantees 1%/year with +/-0.25%.
Jokes aside, the YUGE disparity between 2nd pillars has become a driver for looking for a job.
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Performance != Payout
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How do you mean? Know a couple where they started at about the same salary, progressively one of them made more money over time (boutique consultancy), yet the 2nd pillar of the other person (big pharma) is 2x that of the first. Big firms seem to have better 2nd pillar setups.
The state sets the minimum interest rate. A PF can only go lower than this, if their coverage ratio is lower than 100%.
But im tired as well of seeing 5-7% difference in investment returns and what I actually get as interest. Just shows you how massive the redistribution is.
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I mean if the performance of the fund is X%,
The payout of Y% to you as a member is always Y<X.
(But you knew that, and makes sense, since they need reserves to guarantee positive returns each year)
My fund has had years with 15+%,
Most I’ve ever seen on my account was 7-8%.
(Which I’m very happy with, seeing that keeping near the min 1.25% is almost the norm)
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Did you check if it was actually redistribution? Vs building reserve?
For example when I see profond doing huge payouts instead of building reserve I find it somewhat sketchy.
In the middle of the year their reserve was around 105%, that doesn’t seem resilient to a small market dip. (I’d rather have them give 5% interest in 2024 and go to 120% reserve like many healthy fund with high interest, rather than give 8%(!) and be below reserve coverage on the next market crash…)
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Right. I was also confused first. This is actually quite normal.
Eh, exactly! To be honest I just look at the annual statement, my 2nd pillar provider doesn’t update anything in real time which is a mixed blessing. It’s just that in my mental accounting 2nd pillar is money that never was, free money, and there’s a healthy balance there which I’d like to see doing something above 1%.
For balance, about the couple who I mentioned: the consultant has 5-6x the NW (and nearly 75% of it is fully liquid) of their partner because they saved and invested like an ant 
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The legal minimum interest rate only applies to the mandatory part, though.