# What about Second Pillar? **URL:** \ **Category:** Banks, Insurances & Third Pillar\ **Created:** [October 17, 2017, 7:14am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/what-about-second-pillar/499 "2017-10-17T07:14:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mr.RTF](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Mr.RTF](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Mr.RTF)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 5:13pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/what-about-second-pillar/499/21 "2017-11-29T17:13:03Z")
Simply fill your tax return with and without the contribution and see how the income tax change. It is maybe the simplest way to assess your tax saving. ---
**Author:** ![ma0](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/ma0/32/3259_2.png) [@ma0](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/ma0)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/what-about-second-pillar/499/22 "2017-11-29T18:44:29Z")
[https://neuvoo.ch/tax-calculator/](https://neuvoo.ch/tax-calculator/) I’ve found this. Not bad. Edit: something is wrong…Comparis gives other values for Federal taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Giff](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/giff/32/3256_2.png) [@Giff](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Giff)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2017, 9:01pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/what-about-second-pillar/499/23 "2017-11-29T21:01:14Z")
> [@Financial\_Imagineer](#): > > you relocate outside of Switzerland (…other reasons also apply to take out the $$$ e.g. for purchasing real-estate or founding your own company), you may take the whole pot out and clear your 2nd (and also 3rd) pillar accounts pre-maturely. This can be done WITHOUT paying taxes at all This is incorrect, AFAIK. You need to pay some taxes when taking out 2. and 3. pillar. Not entirely sure about the second, but for the third pillar I would pay around 4.5% when taking out a a few tens of thousands (the percentage goes up with the amount). One word about using the 2nd pillar to pay real estate: they expect you to then live in that house/apartment, i.e., you cannot rent it out (unless you pay the money back into the pension fund). What I always wondered is what happens if one leaves the country and keeps the flat/house as a rental property… Personally, I am thinking to pay into my 2n pillar to get a tax cut, then take out the money to repay part of the mortgage when that runs out in a few years (but keep in mind that the money you put today cannot be used for the next three years). Yes, I am not the ubermustachian type putting as much as possible on the stock market :). ---
**Author:** ![hedgehog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/hedgehog/32/163_2.png) [@hedgehog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/hedgehog)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 1:39am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/what-about-second-pillar/499/24 "2017-12-02T01:39:16Z")
> [@ma0](#): > > [https://neuvoo.ch/tax-calculator/](https://neuvoo.ch/tax-calculator/) > > I’ve found this. Not bad. Total trash, do not trust the figures For ZH I have something here based on actual official tax laws, enjoy: > **[Notebooks at Microsoft - Visual Studio](https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/vs/features/notebooks-at-microsoft/)** > > You can enjoy powerful, integrated Jupyter notebooks with the following products and services from Microsoft and GitHub. ---
**Author:** ![Bojack](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/bojack/32/281_2.png) [@Bojack](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Bojack)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2017, 7:28am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/what-about-second-pillar/499/25 "2017-12-02T07:28:19Z")
Ooh, python, how nice 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Giff](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/giff/32/3256_2.png) [@Giff](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Giff)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2019, 10:15pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/what-about-second-pillar/499/26 "2019-12-10T22:15:40Z")
> [@hedgehog](#): > > [Notebooks at Microsoft - Visual Studio](https://notebooks.azure.com/anon-golbig/libraries/zhtax/html/zhtax.ipynb) I never knew that the federal tax rate DECREASES from 13.2% to 11.5% after a certain income. ---
**Author:** ![derpinator](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/derpinator/32/141_2.png) [@derpinator](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/derpinator)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2019, 6:54am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/what-about-second-pillar/499/27 "2019-12-11T06:54:03Z")
Mother of necropost. But jokes aside that is pretty interresting. ---
**Author:** ![ldnhlj](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ldnhlj](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/ldnhlj)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2020, 9:58am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/what-about-second-pillar/499/28 "2020-05-02T09:58:48Z")
Any update from your research? My understanding is that any gap created through an early withdrawal would need to be paid back (without being able to reduce tax burden with the repayment) before you can start to fill in the “regular gaps (hence tax deduction again)” created through missing contribution years and/or higher current salary… Would love to be proven wrong. ---
**Author:** ![lowyield](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/lowyield/32/3815_2.png) [@lowyield](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/lowyield)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2020, 9:30am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/what-about-second-pillar/499/29 "2020-10-07T09:30:12Z")
Sorry guys to bumping this up… > [@ldnhlj](#): > > My understanding is that any gap created through an early withdrawal would need to be paid back (without being able to reduce tax burden with the repayment) before you can start to fill in the “regular gaps (hence tax deduction again)” created through missing contribution years and/or higher current salary… _as per my understanding_ the moment you perform an early withdrawal, you pay taxes (and fees) corresponding to the amount. When repaying into Pillar 2 (e.g. you want to rent out the apartment you bought using also the early withdrawal) that taxed amount is given back to you. ---
**Author:** ![MrCheese](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/mrcheese/32/2500_2.png) [@MrCheese](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/MrCheese)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2020, 12:20pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/what-about-second-pillar/499/30 "2020-10-07T12:20:35Z")
I can confirm your understanding @lowyield that’s how it works. I did a Pillar 2a withdrawal in 2017 and paid taxes on it and got them back when I bought myself back in. ---
**Author:** ![Ed\_Waadt](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/ed_waadt/32/1732_2.png) [@Ed\_Waadt](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Ed_Waadt)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2020, 12:46pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/what-about-second-pillar/499/31 "2020-10-10T12:46:54Z")
And what about the additional deduction? For example (don’t mind the numbers, just the logic): - You get 50k out - You pay 2% on that, so 1k - Then, some years later you buy 60k back So you get you 1k back and then a deduction of 10k (=60k-50k) on your taxable income? Just curious… thanks! ---
**Author:** ![MrCheese](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/mrcheese/32/2500_2.png) [@MrCheese](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/MrCheese)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2020, 2:45pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/what-about-second-pillar/499/32 "2020-10-10T14:45:59Z")
> [@Ed\_Waadt](#): > > So you get you 1k back and then a deduction of 10k (=60k-50k) on your taxable income? Correct. Only the part after the payback leads to tax deductions again. The buy-in parts are also locked for 3 years before they can be withdrawn. ---
**Author:** ![Absinth911](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Absinth911](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Absinth911)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 9:37pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/what-about-second-pillar/499/33 "2023-09-12T21:37:09Z")
> [@MrCheese](#): > > Correct. Only the part after the payback leads to tax deductions again. The buy-in parts are also locked for 3 years before they can be withdrawn. Is this only valid for the extra pay-in or also for the monthly deduction? Imagine the following: You’re employed for a company and on a monthly basis, you get 1k deducted from your salary as a 2nd pillar contribution. Then imagine, you decide to make a one-off additional purchase of 20k into the 2nd pillar fund. Then, three years later you withdraw the 20k from the 2nd pillar to amortize your mortgage. You pay the taxes of say 5-8% on the withdrawal depending on your canton. Now the question is: If I am still employed and I still get 1k deducted from my monthly salary as a contribution to the 2nd pillar (just like before) - is this 1k/mo tax deductible? Or do I need to first repay the 20k I withdrew (be it over 20 months of 1k/month or as one-off 20 re-purchase)? ---
**Author:** ![MrCheese](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/mrcheese/32/2500_2.png) [@MrCheese](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/MrCheese)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2023, 9:51pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/what-about-second-pillar/499/34 "2023-09-12T21:51:04Z")
You’re regular monthly payments don’t count towards the withdrawal in any form or way. You will need to “buy-in” with another 20k to settle the withdrawal before you can do additional tax advantaged extra-payments. [Previous page](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/what-about-second-pillar/499.md?page=1)