# Wealth Tax: some real life numbers **URL:** \ **Category:** Taxes\ **Created:** [February 18, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/wealth-tax-some-real-life-numbers/708 "2018-02-18T20:55:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Grog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/grog/32/3483_2.png) [@Grog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Grog)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/wealth-tax-some-real-life-numbers/708/1 "2018-02-18T20:55:12Z")
It’s that time of year, and the tax man cometh. I’m particularly interested in some real life example of the wealth tax. In my case (FR) I will have to pay 0.185% of TER for living in CH lol. (Total wealth tax/total wealth) Does anybody else care to share at least their percentage? ---
**Author:** ![hedgehog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/hedgehog/32/163_2.png) [@hedgehog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/hedgehog)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 9:29pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/wealth-tax-some-real-life-numbers/708/2 "2018-02-18T21:29:19Z")
It’s relatively minor in ZH, peaks at about 0.6-0.7% (marginal rate) for 4M. Up to about 2M wealth it’s more than sufficiently offset by pauschal 0.3% deduction for wealth management - they PAY you to declare stocks ![zh-vermoegenssteuer](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/uploads/default/original/2X/f/fad28dd4bd46be03fdf6771f8b7119f2383ab7d0.png) Assumptions: Stadt Zürich, single, no church, no dependants ---
**Author:** ![Grog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/grog/32/3483_2.png) [@Grog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Grog)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 9:43pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/wealth-tax-some-real-life-numbers/708/3 "2018-02-18T21:43:59Z")
This is for canton and communal tax together? I want this thread to be about real numbers and percentage. Mine was 185 for 100k , aka 0.185% Summed together canton and commune ---
**Author:** ![hedgehog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/hedgehog/32/163_2.png) [@hedgehog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/hedgehog)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 9:50pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/wealth-tax-some-real-life-numbers/708/4 "2018-02-18T21:50:04Z")
> [@Grog](#): > > This is for canton and communal tax together? Yes, that’s why I wrote it’s for Stadt Zürich, i.e. 100+119% of cantonal/einfache rate. > [@Grog](#): > > I want this thread to be about real numbers and percentage The plot above are all real numbers - fully checked against ZH’s official tax calculators and what they billed me. I’m not telling my own personal percentage for obvious reasons: it’s equivalent to asking what’s your net worth What I can say is that together with the tax deduction for wealth management, net total is negative for me. ---
**Author:** ![wapiti](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/wapiti/32/4451_2.png) [@wapiti](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/wapiti)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 10:00pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/wealth-tax-some-real-life-numbers/708/5 "2018-02-18T22:00:41Z")
The total is negative because you have a mortgage. Normally, the wealth management is quite low and in most case lower than the wealth tax rate. What do you deduct for the wealth management ? In Vaud, only 0.15% can be deducted without justification. ---
**Author:** ![hedgehog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/hedgehog/32/163_2.png) [@hedgehog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/hedgehog)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2018, 10:26pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/wealth-tax-some-real-life-numbers/708/6 "2018-02-18T22:26:17Z")
> [@](#): > > The total is negative because you have a mortgage. Nope, mortgage has zero effect on taxable wealth. The act of buying a house (whether with or without mortgage, it doesn’t matter) is what affects it - the difference between what you paid and what tax authorities value the house at will be the delta to your net taxable wealth > [@](#): > > Normally, the wealth management is quite low and in most case lower than the wealth tax rate. As I said, wealth management deduction in ZH is 0.3% pauschal up to 2M. Only for the part above 2M you’d need proofs. This exceeds the wealth tax, that’s why I’m getting paid to declare my assets, not the mortgage. ---
**Author:** ![Grog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/grog/32/3483_2.png) [@Grog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Grog)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 5:04am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/wealth-tax-some-real-life-numbers/708/7 "2018-02-19T05:04:26Z")
Found this article: [https://www.ktipp.ch/artikel/d/kosten-fuer-die-vermoegensverwa-tung-das-duerfen-sie-abziehen/](https://www.ktipp.ch/artikel/d/kosten-fuer-die-vermoegensverwa-tung-das-duerfen-sie-abziehen/) not every canton has a wealth management deduction, but I can’t quite find how much is per every canton… ---
**Author:** ![ma0](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/ma0/32/3259_2.png) [@ma0](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/ma0)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 11:10am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/wealth-tax-some-real-life-numbers/708/8 "2018-02-19T11:10:17Z")
> [@hedgehog](#): > > As I said, wealth management deduction in ZH is 0.3% pauschal up to 2M. Only for the part above 2M you’d need proofs. This exceeds the wealth tax, that’s why I’m getting paid to declare my assets, not the mortgage. Can you show me where you read it and where you put it? I used to put only what I paid to Swissquote and co. and that is less than 200chf . ☹ Is it 0.3% of the whole wealth, even if it’s partly cash? ---
**Author:** ![hedgehog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/hedgehog/32/163_2.png) [@hedgehog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/hedgehog)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 7:42pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/wealth-tax-some-real-life-numbers/708/9 "2018-02-19T19:42:40Z")
It’s documented in the Wegleitung, you should skim through it for once. And here’s the expanded explanation: [Steuern | Kanton Zürich](https://www.steueramt.zh.ch/internet/finanzdirektion/ksta/de/steuerbuch/zuercher-steuerbuch-definition/zstb-30-1.html) > [@ma0](#): > > Is it 0.3% of the whole wealth, even if it’s partly cash? Only 0.3% of securities value, no cash ---
**Author:** ![ma0](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/ma0/32/3259_2.png) [@ma0](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/ma0)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2018, 7:59pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/wealth-tax-some-real-life-numbers/708/10 "2018-02-19T19:59:46Z")
Thanks! I wonder why Their Tax software doesn’t do it automatically. eheheh ---
**Author:** ![Grog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/grog/32/3483_2.png) [@Grog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Grog)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 10:01am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/wealth-tax-some-real-life-numbers/708/11 "2018-02-24T10:01:34Z")
there is something bugging me about this whole process. I’ve added management fees into my declaration, but I can’t offset the wealth tax because the deduction are going to the Income, not the wealth tax itself. Example with hypotethical numbers: Total Wealth at 31.12: 90k ETFs, 10k cash. Total wealth tax 0.185% = 185 chf. Adding in 0.3% of management fee for the 90k ETFs: deduction of 270 chf from my income. Marginal tax rate around 25% = 54 chf saved on my tax bill Total wealth related tax: 185 wealth tax - 54 of reduced income tax = 131chf, aka 0.13% additional TER. @hedgehog can you confirm that in ZH is different, that the pauschal costs offset wealth tax and are not deduction from the income? In my canton it works that the management fee reduce income tax. So I can’t never get to the situation where I’m paid to declare my ETF like you claim. ---
**Author:** ![hedgehog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/hedgehog/32/163_2.png) [@hedgehog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/hedgehog)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 6:06pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/wealth-tax-some-real-life-numbers/708/12 "2018-02-24T18:06:39Z")
At 100k wealth, the wealth tax in Zürich would be only 11.00 \* 2.19 = 24.09 Fr. And your gain from the deduction: 90k \* 0.003 \* 25% [your marginal rate] = 67.50 Fr. Net profit: 43.41 Fr ![Screenshot%20from%202018-02-24%2019-04-07](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/uploads/default/original/2X/8/83dd59f3b1b805d766c7232c505efb9b048880c2.png) ---
**Author:** ![Grog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/grog/32/3483_2.png) [@Grog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Grog)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/wealth-tax-some-real-life-numbers/708/13 "2018-02-24T18:26:38Z")
I see now my error, I thought you were talking %, but in reality they are ‰ !!! Crazy the difference with my canton were it is 0.13%…i see now you have put a % in your chart, so does it peak at 0.6% or 0.6‰? ---
**Author:** ![hedgehog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/hedgehog/32/163_2.png) [@hedgehog](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/hedgehog)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/wealth-tax-some-real-life-numbers/708/14 "2018-02-24T18:58:02Z")
I _was_ talking about % only in my posts, I dislike highly unorthodox notations like ‰ they’re using