VT and VTI alternatives in CHF

[xerox5003]

You are right, let me edit my post.

[Mirager]

@Abs_max

SSAC(CHF) accumulating version might be good choice but it has low volume on SIX, so something to keep in mind.

I have a bit less than half of my ETF investments into this one, what I found is that - as I’d been buying it via UBS - is that UBS has a good number of bid/ask (in the hundreds), while on PostFinance (where I am moving to for lower fees) there’s 10 times lower. Could UBS be the market maker? I wonder if it’s worth worrying about it considering I am not looking to sell for a long time? An option would be to sell all and rebuy something more liquid on the SIX (like VWRL which I started building on in 2024)? I’d lose on fees and spreads though.

@Abs_max

It’s important to note that accumulating world ETFs are typically not traded in CHF unless they are hedged to CHF. At least based on what I found on SIX that’s the situation.

It is however listed as traded in CHF on the SIX here: https://www.justetf.com/en/etf-profile.html?isin=IE00B6R52259#stock-exchange, what am I missing?

[rolandinho]

@San_Francisco

Expect to get a call once they do their tax return.

Why would somebody call?
VWRL is the simplest one-liner in the tax declaration, and all data isin the ICTax database (I assume you mean tax declaration, since there is no tax to “return”).

[Abs_max]

I meant that the options are few

• SSACCHF and IWDC are only accumulating world ETF on SIX trading in CHF
• VWRL is traded in CHF but is distributing
• SWDA is accumulating but is traded in USD
• FWRA is also accumulating and in CHF but is very new ETF

[Abs_max]

@Mirager

I have a bit less than half of my ETF investments into this one, what I found is that - as I’d been buying it via UBS - is that UBS has a good number of bid/ask (in the hundreds), while on PostFinance (where I am moving to for lower fees) there’s 10 times lower. Could UBS be the market maker? I wonder if it’s worth worrying about it considering I am not looking to sell for a long time? An option would be to sell all and rebuy something more liquid on the SIX (like VWRL which I started building on in 2024)? I’d lose on fees and spreads though.

In general there is not much issue. Only spreads would be higher which would be a one time cost that should not make too much drag in long term. However, i prefer more liquid ETFs just because they are easy to trade.

[Abs_max]

I am a bit surprized to see VTI underperformed VT. Please double check

Anyhow, over last 10 years VEVE gave better returns than IWDC. I like to compare apple to apple. So i would compare IWDC, SWDA (both are traded in Europe, have irish ISIN and are from ishares, only difference is hedging or not)
2014 to 2024 in CHF-: SWDA (110%) , IWDC (96.7%) source justetf . So in this scenario hedging didnt help.

If someone has interest in hedge or no hedge, morningstar has a good paper
https://www.msci.com/documents/10199/ecc9a964-0c09-4184-8ba7-084382b8074f

To be honest, it is very difficult to beat buying VT on IBKR. It is cheapest, it is largest and most diverse and also IB is cheapest to trade. But i do not think people look for other options because of cost necessarily. Sometimes, mental peace depends on comfort.

I personally also have VT on IB as main investment. But will also look into SWDA on SQ as second option.

[Mirager]

@Abs_max

In general there is not much issue. Only spreads would be higher which would be a one time cost that should not make too much drag in long term. However, i prefer more liquid ETFs just because they are easy to trade.

Thanks, my reasoning was that I prefer to just have it all in CHF (maybe that the OP’s family member had the same thought) so anything I see is exactly what I get and I never have to think in terms of currencies (even though I’ve read the several discussions here that currency doesn’t matter) or hedging, furthermore the idea was not to trade them, just to build and hold for a long time

[wapiti]

no, the spread is the gap between the buy and the sell price. You can find this info on the SIX website for exemple: https://www.six-group.com/de/products-services/the-swiss-stock-exchange/market-data/etf/etf-explorer/etf-detail.IE00B6R52259CHF4.html#/

[Dots92]

Sorry but what is the difference between VT chf adjusted and a normal VT?

[San_Francisco]

@rolandinho

I assume you mean tax declaration

…also known as a „tax return“ in English, yes.

@rolandinho

Why would somebody call?
VWRL is the simplest one-liner in the tax declaration

So simple indeed that the family member may see through your ruse and notice it‘s a USD fund.
Despite his/her insistence to @Hemingway that a CHF-denominated fund be purchased.

[TeaGhost]

The CHF Equivalent to VTI is an SPI ETF and/or Index Fund. Just saying…

I would respect the desire for CHF Hedged investing. It does no good, but it as well (over the very long time) does no harm.

The question is whether your contact was capable and willing to deal with investing at a broker. Sounds a bit like “I don’t want trouble, don’t want to focus on it, don’t want to do anything” case. Hence, I would go to Avadis…

[San_Francisco]

@TeaGhost

It does no good, but it as well (over the very long time) does no harm

Well, maybe it does some harm (costs). But then, it’s statistically a superior option to not investing at all.
And maybe the family number needs to make his/her own experience.

@Hemingway

on it being in CHF or CHF-hedged

I’d invest about half of it into a hedged fund and half of it in a CHF-denominated but unhedged fund.
Or maybe a 33-67% split.

[assemblyrequired]

@Abs_max

I have heard a lot about FWRA but does it also have good tracking difference performance like VWRL?

Performance data will be available when the ETF will be 1 year old.

[Hemingway]

Exactly what I’ll do