You jump from “in CHF or CHF-hedged” to “hedged to CHF” - why?
When you say “World Stock market”, do you mean World-ex-US?
What is family member’s opinion to VWRL, in CHF, traded on SIX? It’s more-or-less VT, in CHF, yes slightly different index, but close enough IMO.
VWRL is traded in CHF. Expect to get a call once they see the dividends in USD…
This:
May increase the risk of this:
I would try as much as I can to be purely explanatory and letting them take the decisions without trying to apply convincing. It’s their money, they need to be in charge of it and it’s all too easy to blame someone else whatever the scenario is (loosing more than expected by being invested in too risky assets (and/or assets of which the risks are not fully understood) or lagging behind other top performers if invested in less risky assets, or simply by not winning the lottery and picking the singular stock/sector that skyrockets and gets talked about in social circles.
The “trick” here is to simply have no USD account, then the USD dividends get automatically/magically exchanged to CHF = no telephone call.
Expect to get a call once they do their tax return.
How about their low-cost mutual funds someone mentioned recently?
MSCI world
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IWDC (basically a developed world CHF hedged index) is quite popular in Switzerland
SWDA is unhedged version but trades in USD (also accumulating)
MSCI ACWI
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SSAC(CHF) accumulating version might be good choice but it has low volume on SIX, so something to keep in mind.
It’s important to note that accumulating world ETFs are typically not traded in CHF unless they are hedged to CHF. At least based on what I found on SIX that’s the situation.
UBS also has a global passive index fund CH0356507415. It’s not really global like VT because it’s MSCI world ex CH. These can be bought anywhere but I think buying on UBS should be possible too. Of course account for the custody fees drag.
I have heard a lot about FWRA but does it also have good tracking difference performance like VWRL?
I am still not sure if lower TER results in higher performance for FWRA vs VWRL.
Looks pretty good, return since 01.01.2014, development of USD/CHF taken into account:
| ETF | Total Return (CHF) | Annualized Return (CAGR) | Volatility | Maximum Drawdown |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| VTI ETF (CHF-adjusted) | 138.14% | 8.76% | 14.32% | -36.79% |
| VT ETF (CHF-adjusted) | 146.10% | 9.30% | 14.77% | -37.42% |
| VEVE ETF (CHF-adjusted) | 157.82% | 9.80% | 16.87% | -39.63% |
| IWDC CHF hedged ETF | 130.43% | 8.54% | 13.92% | -34.79% |
One must decide if 16% delta to VT is justified for beeing “insured” through an CHF hedged etf and paying nearly 18-times more.
I think equivalent for IWDC would be something like VEVE even though not 100% equivalent. Because VTI is USA only and US outperformed many countries in last decade.
The value of hedging is not so clear. It seems all research points out to no clear conclusion
You are right, let me edit my post.
I have a bit less than half of my ETF investments into this one, what I found is that - as I’d been buying it via UBS - is that UBS has a good number of bid/ask (in the hundreds), while on PostFinance (where I am moving to for lower fees) there’s 10 times lower. Could UBS be the market maker? I wonder if it’s worth worrying about it considering I am not looking to sell for a long time? An option would be to sell all and rebuy something more liquid on the SIX (like VWRL which I started building on in 2024)? I’d lose on fees and spreads though.
It is however listed as traded in CHF on the SIX here: https://www.justetf.com/en/etf-profile.html?isin=IE00B6R52259#stock-exchange, what am I missing?
Why would somebody call?
VWRL is the simplest one-liner in the tax declaration, and all data isin the ICTax database (I assume you mean tax declaration, since there is no tax to “return”).
I meant that the options are few
In general there is not much issue. Only spreads would be higher which would be a one time cost that should not make too much drag in long term. However, i prefer more liquid ETFs just because they are easy to trade.
I am a bit surprized to see VTI underperformed VT. Please double check
Anyhow, over last 10 years VEVE gave better returns than IWDC. I like to compare apple to apple. So i would compare IWDC, SWDA (both are traded in Europe, have irish ISIN and are from ishares, only difference is hedging or not)
2014 to 2024 in CHF-: SWDA (110%) , IWDC (96.7%) source justetf . So in this scenario hedging didnt help.
If someone has interest in hedge or no hedge, morningstar has a good paper
https://www.msci.com/documents/10199/ecc9a964-0c09-4184-8ba7-084382b8074f
To be honest, it is very difficult to beat buying VT on IBKR. It is cheapest, it is largest and most diverse and also IB is cheapest to trade. But i do not think people look for other options because of cost necessarily. Sometimes, mental peace depends on comfort.
I personally also have VT on IB as main investment. But will also look into SWDA on SQ as second option.
Thanks, my reasoning was that I prefer to just have it all in CHF (maybe that the OP’s family member had the same thought) so anything I see is exactly what I get and I never have to think in terms of currencies (even though I’ve read the several discussions here that currency doesn’t matter) or hedging, furthermore the idea was not to trade them, just to build and hold for a long time
no, the spread is the gap between the buy and the sell price. You can find this info on the SIX website for exemple: https://www.six-group.com/de/products-services/the-swiss-stock-exchange/market-data/etf/etf-explorer/etf-detail.IE00B6R52259CHF4.html#/
Sorry but what is the difference between VT chf adjusted and a normal VT?
…also known as a „tax return“ in English, yes. 
So simple indeed that the family member may see through your ruse and notice it‘s a USD fund. 
Despite his/her insistence to @Hemingway that a CHF-denominated fund be purchased.