Which is quite nice especially for customers with a higher risk profile compared to a AAA customer.
If I have a strong overall rating I would continue with an investment foundation, for example.
Which is quite nice especially for customers with a higher risk profile compared to a AAA customer.
I was so happy when I have accidentally stumbled on the Viac mortgage offering yesterday. Usually I check it once per 2 month or something, and yesterday was exactly that day. Currently I am in the process of negotiation of mortgage deal with few banks, so my dossier is fully ready to be deployed. I have applied today in the morning to Viac as it seems I full fill all their criteria and will let you know how it goes. (how quickly they respond, what real rate they really give etc etc) Cuz if they really propose 1.19% for 10yrs it is by faaaaaaaaar the best offer I have managed to get, closest is 1.69% so far. I have even wrote in the email that I am probably the first person to apply for the mortgage hopefully they are fully ready to give it as the signature at the notary for property acquisition is scheduled in 2 weeks
Sounds great! Looking forward to read an update.
Good luck for your mortgage. I hope you will get those amazing rates!
And thank you in advance for sharing.
Indeed pledging 2nd pillar will reduce the lending ratio and in general give you better interest conditions but it does not count as equity so it needs to be amortized if you are below 66.67% for a residential property. Early withdrawal of 2nd pillar counts as equity but you need to provide at least 10% of equity funds that do not come from the 2nd pillar on top of the 2nd pillar withdrawal.
In case you pledge your 3a accounts for the purpose of a mortgage and have a high % equity strategy (e.g. Global 100): Do we know how these kind of situations will be handled by VIAC/WIR? Do they take take only a percentage of the funds invested as “hard equity” to weather market turmoil?
Couple of banks are “accepting” 100% of the 3a as value, other 65% and other…
In case of WIR I cannot make a statement, sind I do not know the conversion rate.
I have had a conversation with them yesterday, as I am on the final stages of taking out their mortgage. Hopefully I will pass the second stage of analysis They have told me that if you pledge your 3a Viac and continue to amortise through it they would count 100% of pledged money even if you have 100 Global strategy. That is some insane conditions I must admit.
On the other side of the coin which I can already inform you. Wir was by far the most conservative bank with the apartment value estimation out of all I have contacted (Around 8 in total) They are basically asking for about 28% in equity + 5% notary fee, so 33% in cash upfront.
I guess you’re one of the first person doing it, must be quite a boutique experience
My S.O. is probably going to buy a flat in the next few weeks.
Should the deal go through I’ll ask her to check VIAC, she is already a 3a customer thanks to this forum ( ), and see how it works - will keep you posted.
Since it’s a new construction I’m hoping the equity remains 20%, which she ideally would fulfill through VIAC 3a + Pillar 2 + cash. I guess notary fees will be added though in AG they should be less than 5% by my research.
AFAIK VIAC does not offer mortgages for new constructions
I understood the same from their FAQ but it was a bit equivocal whether it’s a problem for your “construction project” (i.e. you buy a plot and ask mortgage to build) or also for an established residential project by an immo company which is already backed by a bank anyway… I don’t know why the latter would be an issue and want to ask them.
Thank you for the very valued udpdate.
Good to know they would count 100% of the pledged money. On the other hand, if they are quite conservative in terms of the equity you have to provide up front, I guess it equals somewhat out. It is reasonable from a neutral perspective, that WIR bank as a lender has to take market fluctuations with the underlying securities (in the 3a shelter) into account somewhere.
It is my understanding that pledged 3a remains invested under reasonable conditions, so by providing more equity you are not losing the market performance.
Agreed with your understanding.
I was - perhaps mistakenly - assuming that in Graff’s example he had to put up a portion of his funds in “hard cash” instead of only pledged 3a funds, as WIR asked for 28% in equity in total. But yeah, that assumption was perhaps a bit hasty on my part.
I have signed the Notary contract yesterday, and now a happy first time owner of the real estate in Switzerland. Below is a full review about Viac and personal experience of signing with them. Sorry if it will end up long.
About 1 month ago, we have found a very nice place with my wife right on the lake Leman that we have fell in love with, and made the offer to buy it at the asking price right on the visit. (Looks like that is the only way you can have a chance to buy a good property. Also make sure you are the first person to arrive to visit it. From my experience good apartment is being sold with in 2-3 hours of the first day of visit already) We have made an upfront guarantee payment the next morning, and agreed with the owners to have 5 weeks to find a Mortgage solution. And the story begins:
As a true Mustashian, I have put my time and effort in the process to be certain that I am getting a good deal. I have contacted a very Big Mortgage Broker (BMB for future reference) who said that due to the size and influence they can guarantee much better deals than anyone else on the market, Small Local Broker (SLB) who said that due to very personalised and human approach they can guarantee best deal on the market, and ofcourse I have contacted every bank where I am currently the client in. The email and the documents were templated, so everyone has received demand at the same day.
Swiss Quote never replied to me, even tho I have called multiple times and followed up.
Migros bank did now allow me to pass affordably calculation, as they take bonus calculation low.
UBS gave such a high conditions for downpayment and rate that there was no reason to continue dialogue with them.
Small Local broker took the lead in the race and with in the week I had multiple phone conversation and very descriptive emails, and I felt that I am am being taken care of. By Friday I had already 3 “Unofficial” offers on the table from them.
It took 2 weeks for the Big Mortage Broker just to find time to talk to me for the first time about the mortgage, how it is calculated, and what a big job they will do for me to find a dream solution, that I have lost faith in them right at the start =)
VIAC came the last as they have announced mortgage solution only 3 weeks ago. First the conversation between us was slow, and came from general team email, knowing that my notary signature was set to be very soon, I was quite pessimistic about receiving the concrete offer from them in time. Also they are based in Basel, and it felt like French is a limitation for them. They had problems understanding the real estate documents on French from the owners, and preferred talking on English with me. So Swiss Romande Mustachians prepare to be patient =) After 1.5 weeks, and after my dossier was complete with all needed documents, I got assigned to a specific client advisor. From this point everything escalated super quickly.
I can not say enough how helpful and attentive the client advisor (CA) in Viac was. We had 2-3 phone calls a day and he immediately stressed out how important it is to have a guarantee of payment BEFORE I sign anything at the Notaire. BMB and SLB both tried to convince me that having a signed contract with the bank before Notaire is not very important, as my move-in date is only in summer. I guess they wanted me to be more hooked by the notaire contract conditions, and high penalties fees, before giving their offers.
First offer from Viac was very conservative, they have asked for about 28% in equity as they valued the apartment lower than my buying price. Later they have dropped it to 24% which was ok for me. Interestingly they did not ask to see that I have enough money for the Notaire fees and other costs. As long as I could provide asked downpayment, they did not need to see extra money. After I accepted their offer, contract was in my mail box the next morning (you have to sign it by hand). He set up an account the next day, after which I wired the downpayment, and the promise of payment arrived to the Notaire office from them in the evening.
Amortization can be done through VIAC 3a account, and they take in to account 100% of the pledged money, even with the Global 100% strategy. Something I had very hard time to get from BMB and SLB. Both of them regarded life insurance amortization as the only solution, and tried very hard to talk me out of any direct amortization through the bank. (Very descriptive talks were used of my family living on the streets, after I die or become disabled, as we are single income family). Currently I am waiting a response from CA If I can use Viac life insurance product for the small left over I have over the 3a yearly limit that I have to amortize, which technically should work, and then all arguments of BMB & SLB loose any value.
All in all the entire process with VIAC took about 3 weeks, and 1 week from the moment I got assigned a CA. Once I showed the final offer from Viac, both BMB and SLB lost any interest in me, and said that this is unbeatable.
Summery of final offers received:
Interest rate: 1.68% 10yrs fixed
Amortizations through investment fund: 100% (Very high fees and TER) (Was proposed 100% through life insurance as a recommendation)
Interest rate: 1.55% 10yrs fixed
Amortizations through investment fund: 80% (Which means I have to ammoritze 20% on top to stay invested in the fund) (Was proposed 100% through life insurance as a recommendation)
Interest rate: 1.19% 10yrs fixed
Amertization: 100% in to Viac 3a, even with Global 100 strategy and all of it is taken in to consideration.
I guess bigger the company the higher are appetites of a Broker and his new Porche
I have asked VIAC how long will they keep 1.19 % fixed rate, and they said that they have a threshold of number of mortgages given at the specific rate. Once limit is reached the % increases. So dont wait if you are looking for a mortgage now =))
Best of luck to all !
Thank you very much for the detailed report. It is very much appreciated.
Just to clarify the ‘downpayment’: You had to put up 24% in hard cash or did you cover this through existing 3a pillars at VIAC that you pledged?
Congrats on your purchase.
Concerning the pledged 3a with 100% stocks: if markets crash, do you have to deliver more cash / buy more stocks (to make sure your equity is not too low)?
The ratio 50/50 for cash and pillars still stay true with them. In my case I could not use LPP as i dont have 20k there yet, and they allowed me to cash out Viac 3a right a way. For the speed I have privided entire downpayment in Cash, and now waiting withdrawal of 3a which apparently take about 2 weeks.
Thanks for your detailed report.
The Viac Life Plus premium is not a 3a payment. I.e. the sum of your 3a indirect amortization payment and the Viac Life Plus premium is not limited to the 3a maximum of CHF 6’883 a year.