US-ETFs (VT for instance) not available anymore in Switzerland?

Yes. You can sell 99 directly afterwards if you wish :wink:

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But you have to be fast, you enter some kind of leverage (on margin) that way.

How does this work?
Does it work on any broker?

Still all “could”, “should”, and “think”, so no new significant info as far as I read.
Wonder what was updated in his post on Oct 13.

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Not much was updated indeed. The dates have been updated with the next possible deadline, 2022 and the fact that we can still use these ETFs with Interactive Brokers. This is a question that I get so often that it was worth the update to get more visibility from new readers.

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It looks to me that he didn’t understand that qualified investor status has nothing to do with beeing a professional investor so there is no need to wonder about fiscal implication.

We can see that there is a loophole for the rich . The European Union does not want to hurt the rich that are in the European Union.

It is like saying that it is unfair that when your consumer credit is higher than 80k, the lender doesn’t have to comply with LCC/KKG.

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Btw, UBS recently changed their ToS and explicitly mark US funds (e.g. VT). That said I don’t trade with UBS so couldn’t check if they merely display a disclaimer that you shouldn’t trade it/it’s not solicitation, or if they also prevent trading.

Maybe someone trading with UBS could let us know?

Edit: I think the new ToS says

These collective investment schemes are expressly excluded from being offered in and from Switzerland and/or to nonqualified investors.

But I don’t know if they allow reverse solicitation.

What exactly is the difference between the requirement for the KID for european investors and for Swiss investors. In the blogpost of thepoorswiss, it sais that the KID needs to be available in every language of the member states of the EU. Is this correct?

I found that the Swiss KID needs to be in one of the four national languages or English, so it may be much easier to comply for smaller fund providers. Do you think it is realistic, that at least one fund provider that offers cheap US funds will comply and provide a KID document?

No, it’s unlikely (why would they care when they already have UCITS ETFs for the European market?). It’s more likely they’d be allowed to market it based on US prospectus.

(And even more likely that since 1) reverse solicitation is allowed 2) change in existing positions are allowed, brokers targeting more experienced people will just let people continue trading them anyway)

Who is “they”? Does every company that offers competitive US funds, offer IE based funds?

It is enough if one company complies with a relatively cheap offering. I can’t imagine that it is that expensive to produce a KID in English.

They = the major providers (ishares, vanguard, etc.).

I just don’t see what the incentive is for them, Swiss market is small comparatively (and the institutional traders are not restricted and can still access the ETFs).

(Plus they’d make more money if people switch to the UCITS version :))

Yes, but there are other companies that don’t offer IE based funds. They don’t have an incentive to not publish a KID.

By the way I think the deadline for the prospectus obligation was Dec 1st 2020.

Prospectus Review | regservices.ch (one of the company that take care of that) mentions:

Art. 109 FinSO provides that a prospectus for securities offered to the public in Switzerland or admitted to trading on a trading venue must be published no later than six months after the authorisation of a Prospectus Review Office by FINMA, i.e. from 1 December 2020.

Edit: Seems like UBS stopped allowing people to trade US ETFs, when I check VTI in my account I get:

Ce produit est proposĂ© uniquement en Suisse, ainsi qu’aux investisseurs domiciliĂ©s en Suisse, en possession du statut d’investisseur qualifiĂ© au sens de la Loi suisse sur les placements collectifs (LPCC). Il peut faire l’objet de restrictions ult.

It’s still work :slight_smile: probably need to have legal department sign off at least, plus ongoing maintenance to make keep an eye on regulation changes that might impact it.

Also I’m not sure there’s blanket approval for US prospectus (I tried figuring out the list of foreign equivalence but haven’t so far).

In the end depends how big the swiss retail market is (I assume it’s fairly small, for a given fund might be what, 0.01%?).

Wouldn’t the main metric be the time that is needed compared to the potential influx?

Not really, there’s also some increased regulatory risk. At least in my field (software engineering) I wouldn’t add a feature that had almost no users (because I’ll have to maintain it forever).

There’s also the opportunity cost, could the legal department work on more important things during that time?

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Could you still sell the VTI you own at UBS simply, or is this complicated now?

I don’t trade at UBS, but there’s no reason they wouldn’t let you sell, that’s how all brokers have implemented those trade restrictions.

And if they follow the regulation by the letter, they might let you increase a position you already hold, so if you already have VTI you might be able to buy more, but since I don’t trade with them I didn’t check how they implemented it, I was just curious if they’d let you enter a position.

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This is bad news

But maybe the law applies only to CH brokers

No, but IB is less retail than UBS, I reread my customer agreement with IB and they make it clear they’re execution only (they don’t market anything). So technically they’d still be fine (if they decide to, nobody is forcing them).

If you check the UBS docs, they actually mention the execution only side is fine (you can access the US ETFs), but they also decided they don’t do execution only with retail clients.

It make sense to me :slight_smile: