Update: 3.5 years since starting my investment journey

“The first generation makes it, the second generation spends it, and the third generation blows it.”

It is not just about the wealth it is the psychology. Building wealth via my own means gives me a sense of achievement and progress. I think you are absolutely right to look into getting some kind of coaching and figure out what makes you happy

Warren Buffet gave USD 1M to each of his kids and said no more. His daughter once asked him for 20k to redo their kitchen and he refused

Good luck !

4 Likes

Sorry, I should have clarified that - it’s a social anxiety so a problem not related to the money topic. Just something that I wanted to talk to with a professional anyways so I thought I cold then also bring up the financial stuff.

Regarding the financial stuff, I don’t really need to talk to people about that, it’s more the “issues” (finding purpose etc) that come in relation to that.

2 Likes

I just want to say first and foremost, for your age & situation, I find your described actions are really admirable in how sensible you’ve been!

I’ve seen all too many trust fund kids lose their way, in the worst cases end up dying from a drug overdose.
I’m not saying you’re a trust fund kid, but part of your situation is quite similar.

Ouff, if I were to think up some challenging-to-find therapist profile, this would be one of them.
Having some experience with therapists, I found it difficult to even find ones who understood me/clicked with me on more typical problems.
I’d say find a therapist suitable for your anxiety and maybe find an experienced relative or similar that you can trust, to speak with about financial things?

What’s the anxiety about mainly, is it related to the money (losing it) or more a problem with life and its (supposedly lacking) purpose? Remember, being happy is sometimes hard work, even for people who “have everything”.

Definitely consider reducing to 80% as a first step, to learn how to handle more free time. And maybe this will help you to find something inspiring to do? Reducing to 80% won’t raise (m)any eyebrows (friends, colleagues) and allow you to invest more time in a therapy, being there while they build your mom’s house etc.
And if you don’t like it, no problem to go back to 100%, so hardly anything to lose, no?
It definitely sounds like you’ll use the time sensibly.

6 Likes

Thank you for your response.
Yes, retiring early is not really my goal for now. I enjoy making money and I simply wouldn’t be ready to just quit work at this age. It’s another story if you try to retire at 50 for example, I’d be more comfortable with that.

I don’t think I’ll be able to lose my money if I even tried to. I’m way too frugal to just spend money on unnecessary stuff. I like seeing my money grow and just spend money on things I truly enjoy or are worth it.
Good point on trying to decide where to spend my time. Usually time gets traded for money. As I wouldn’t really have to do that maybe I could also try and spend my time on more fulfilling/helpful jobs to the society. Something I’ll keep in mind for sure.

I often think about that saying. I’m actually the fourth generation and managing to keep/grow it pretty well. Looking at the other side of the family, the third generation is blowing it as we speak.

A wise man. To be honest I wouldn’t give my kids (if I decide to have some) a ton of money either. Earning money yourself definitely feels better than just getting it out of nowhere. You appreciate it more.
Thank you

1 Like

Thank you, I appreciate that.
I think my situation is inherently different as my family (grandparents) have money but they don’t show/spend it. I also wasn’t raised with much money as my mother was the only person raising me and she’s comfortable but by no means wealthy.

Good point in dividing the topics, I think that makes sense. I don’t have any relatives that I want to speak about regarding financial stuff as they don’t seem to appreciate the money and just blow through it.
Probably the best option would be to talk to somebody that also inherited a lot of money at a young age and is now a bit older and made his experiences in that situation. Incredibly difficult to find though.

Sorry, I should have clarified that the anxiety is a different topic. But yes, the money topic is just a “problem” with life (what am I going to do, should I just keep working like normal and stash more money which I don’t really need?). Being happy/content can be difficult, yes.

Reducing to 80% does sound like a good plan. I could use the time to support her for the project (which I already do but more in depth, she works a lot) and figure out my next steps in life.

2 Likes

About therapists: I haven’t had one specifically for financially related topics but my experience with them is that they mainly got me to figure out what I wanted to do and what I needed to do to get there, as well as providing meaningful encouragement for focusing on myself. Their expertise on the specific topic that constituted my trauma, while useful, wasn’t the most useful thing they brought to me : their expertise in human psychology and on how to guide me was.

There are several kinds of therapists and of therapies, I have had ones with whom I clipped real well and did real progress and others with whom nothing happened. It has never been a magic formula for me: I always left with still a lot of questions, and the healing process as well as moving forward was not finished when I left their care (at a point where I doubted they could provide meaningful assistance to help me move further).

When it comes to therapists, I think it’s important to shop around and find one with whom you feel confident they can help you. For one that would tick that box, there are several who wouldn’t, and I sometimes discovered it only after a few sessions, as opposed to immediately. It’s normal and part of the process : it’s only once you get to experience what working with them really is that you can decide if they can provide you with what you are in need of. You should never be afraid to end the therapy, explaining that you just don’t feel the understanding/kind of connection you need with your therapist and will seek another. They know how it works and will understand.

Not all therapists are covered by mandatory health insurance. Some/many are covered by supplementary insurance (which is worth it in my opinion, but it depends on what you would value in the available policies) and some are not covered at all. I would say that you can afford to cover it yourself, and that time is the ultimate currency, of which we can’t have more of. If it can help you improve the quality of your life, it may not be worth it to wait six months to save a few thousand bucks (in your situation, someone with less assets would be in another situation).

I’d shop for a supplementary insurance I like, see if it is advantageous to take it for what I intend to use it for, then either take it and do what’s required to put therapy on it, or not take it and go to therapy on my dime. You are the only one knowing your true situation, though, so, of course, your own assessment may differ.

Edit: As an added note: you shouldn’t be surprised either if therapy doesn’t bring you anything of value after having tried it. It happens and is fully normal. It may help but there’s no guarantee of results when going through it. “May” is the operative term in the previous sentence: there’s no reason to question ourselves if it doesn’t work for us.

5 Likes

You could also connect to other Mustachian and organise a meet-up in your city.
I have done it in Geneva and it’s quite fun

3 Likes

Out of curiosity, do you have a university degree?

Met plenty of people there that were in similar situations… :smiley:

Yeah, mostly about financial anxiety related to my general anxiety. Not that she gave me any advice financially but she helped me frame my anxieties around money differently.

2 Likes

Do you like that job and a career in that field?
Growing in a specific area can give you a direction in life and some happiness.

2 Likes

Please take this with a large (more than twice-your-age-Gen-X sized) grain of salt … not really atuned to your generation and so probably not really providing useful commentary for you. :slight_smile:

Just echoing what @rolandinho has stated already: I am amazed how sensibly you are thinking about these things are your age. Congratulations on that achievement already!

I was pretty smart at your age but super dumb moneywise. Like nowhere near the level you seem to be at.

You seem self-aware and smart moneywise.

I hope you don’t perceive this particular comment as patronizing - all I want to say is that I perceive your perspective as pretty mature, much more than mine ever was at that age.

I would not have the guts for this kind of (concentrated) diversification.

I know people (like Buffett et al) say there’s higher returns with more concentrated portfolios, but there is also higher risk. If you can afford the risk, fine.*

Your company 1 and 2 investments are the most eyebrow rising to me. In your position I would probably not diversify this into the hundred+ companies as I did (since I can take less risk and you can take more), but distributing more than half your total assets into just two companies would make me very nervous.
That said …
(a) you seem to know these companies and can probably better qualify your risks versus a broader market,
(b) perhaps these companies themselves are really well diversified for their returns,
(c) you have enough substantiated insider info that these companies will do well
… that you’re comfortable with that asset allocation.

If I were you at my age (impossible, I know) I would diversify your company 1 and 2 holding (assuming they’re liquid at the valuations you cite) into

  • (preferrably) a dividend growth strategy if you want to and have the time to look at individual companies, valuations, and a bunch more of fundamentals. I am convinced this gives you the highest returns. Details here.
  • plain vanilla low cost ETFs. S&P 500, more VT, you name it, if you can’t be bothered with individual companies. I’d still recommend averaging into them (versum lump sum allocation), just for psychological reasons.

Cash position is fine as long as you don’t need a return, though currently treasuries are probably just as attractive if not better.

Crypto? Speculative … maybe? Long term, no.


* I personnally would not have the guts for more concentration until my total portfolio value reached the stage that even with a 50% total drawdown I would never even fear running out of money ever.
Probably at least low 8 figures CHF for me.

Perhaps with your current yearly expenses and your total equity, this might be fine, though?

Nice.

It’s just about what I am aiming for (income wise), but (ideally) purely from dividends.

At your stage, this allows you to “snowball” (further invest) at a very nice accumulation rate.
Given your basis, current expenses and funds available for reinvestments, you should be doing very well going forward.
Congrats again.

I understand your concern, though I’d look at it from a liquidity perspective.

The funds held in custody at any broker will always be yours. When you get them in a bancruptcy situation it anyone’s guess, but you’ll get them eventually. Question is whether you’ll get by in the mean time.

I would not have any issues with holding all my assets at one broker as long as my guaranteed cash flow (from other operations) would cover my expenses (which appears to be true in your current situation).

Oh, and I am sorry you lost money with FTX, but comparing FTX to IBKR seems like comparing, ahem, say, Coinbase to Treasuries, in current market situation terms? One thing ain’t like the other, stability wise.

I’m afraid I cannot really offer much advide on either issue.

Owning or building your dream property is something I would pursue given nearly infinite funds. Given my finite funds, I have the same reservations you already have.

I do not, I wouldn’t be cut out for that, I prefer autodidacticism

2 Likes

I do. I also enjoy learning about new topics within that field and exploring stuff. I wouldn’t give it up completely

Thank you very much, I appreciate that a lot and I didn’t perceive it as patronizing at all.

This is kind of a special allocation which I won’t be changing for now. I inherited these shares and will be inheriting the whole company at one point. I am considering selling the company once I fully own it but now it wouldn’t make much sense. Also, both companies are growing really well and are in good industries so I’m not really worried about them going belly up.
But I completely understand where you’re coming from. If I had this money in a cash allocation I wouldn’t make such concentrated bets. I’d invest it into VT. Stockpicking/Dividend growth strategy is not really my thing.

Completely agree that comparing FTX to IBKR is not really a valid comparison. I also know that technically the shares that the broker holds for me are held in my name and should eventually get to me in case of a bankruptcy. BUT we are only talking about brokers that don’t have anything shady going on - you never know. Better safe than sorry in my opinion.

Thanks for your detailed response

There are options, if you are interested.

  • Both iShares and Vanguard IE have options of investing directly in mutual fund classes starting from amounts of 500k or 1m.
  • Swisscanto mutual funds are probably the safest mutual funds for Swiss investors.
  • Swissquote claim to register shares directly with the central securities depositary, although I haven’t yet figured out how to verify that.
  • Finally there are options of holding shares directly with the central securities depositary, although I don’t know details.
1 Like

@preparations just an idea, but traveling the world is usually a good “investment” for your future. Seeing different people and cultures work and live.

Congratulations on being so savvy and aware so young.

3 Likes

That’s pretty interesting, thank you.
I’ll probably look into investing with Vanguard IE once I get to like 1.5m in VT.

Here’s the response their livechat representative gave me:
“als Kunde ist es nicht möglich dies zu überprüfen”
I then asked if these claims are just based on the customer trusting Swissquote that they actually do that.
“Ja, wir haben eine Banklizenz. Wir haben eine Banklizenz und unterstehen der FINMA. Wenn wir im Geschäft bleiben wollen, müssen wir bestimmte Verfahren einhalten.”

Good on you for achieving that at a young age. Most people are asking why work a 9-5 - I have a different take

  • You have a side hustle
  • Clearly you enjoy it otherwise you wouldn’t do it (you don’t need the 15K)

Why don’t you go all in on the side hustle?

  • Do you need help growing it?
  • Is there a skill you can build or hire that would transform the side hustle into a 10x or 100x business?

If it’s digital (e-commerce, newsletter, online courses, etc) related ping me and we can talk and share experiences.

1 Like

I thought about that too but this is simply not scalable, the income from it will rather go down over the next few years.

But yes, starting a serious side hustle/startup would also be a pretty interesting adventure.

2 Likes