# \[SOLVED\] I can not invest in US domiciled ETF anymore with IB
**URL:** https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/solved-i-can-not-invest-in-us-domiciled-etf-anymore-with-ib/10208
**Category:** Investing / Brokers
**Created:** [April 26, 2023, 7:23pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/solved-i-can-not-invest-in-us-domiciled-etf-anymore-with-ib/10208 "2023-04-26T19:23:15Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@WorkInProgress](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/WorkInProgress)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 10:11am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/solved-i-can-not-invest-in-us-domiciled-etf-anymore-with-ib/10208/65 "2023-04-29T10:11:10Z")
Yep, also blocked. Since I am a US citizen, I cannot invest in an European based ETFs either (e.g. VWRL).
My entire FIRE plan just went on fire lol. Maybe I will open a Charles Schwab account using a relative’s US address. Or stop investing.
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### Author:  [@nabalzbhf](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/nabalzbhf)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 10:16am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/solved-i-can-not-invest-in-us-domiciled-etf-anymore-with-ib/10208/66 "2023-04-29T10:16:47Z")
I’d wait a bit, there’s a good chance this will be resolved. (If this isn’t a mistake they need to update all their documentation, it currently don’t cover Switzerland wrt KID/KIID requirement, it only mentions UK+EEA)
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### Author:  [@WorkInProgress](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/WorkInProgress)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 10:18am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/solved-i-can-not-invest-in-us-domiciled-etf-anymore-with-ib/10208/67 "2023-04-29T10:18:32Z")
If this is not resolved and options are the way to go, I hope one of you bloggers makes a nice “How to…” post for idiots like me…
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### Author:  [@jay](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/jay)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 10:19am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/solved-i-can-not-invest-in-us-domiciled-etf-anymore-with-ib/10208/68 "2023-04-29T10:19:49Z")
> [@WorkInProgress](#):
>
> My entire FIRE plan just went on fire lol. Maybe I will open a Charles Schwab account using a relative’s US address. Or stop investing.
Isn’t Charles Schwab available to Swiss residents anyway? It’s included in this comparison: [https://www.mustachianpost.com/best-trading-platform-in-switzerland/](https://www.mustachianpost.com/best-trading-platform-in-switzerland/)
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### Author:  [@nabalzbhf](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/nabalzbhf)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 10:21am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/solved-i-can-not-invest-in-us-domiciled-etf-anymore-with-ib/10208/69 "2023-04-29T10:21:31Z")
And while swiss brokers are more expensive, many of them allow trading US ETFs.
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### Author:  [@WorkInProgress](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/WorkInProgress)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 10:23am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/solved-i-can-not-invest-in-us-domiciled-etf-anymore-with-ib/10208/70 "2023-04-29T10:23:03Z")
Aha, as a US citizen, I cannot open an account with any Swiss broker. While you guys will be screwed by PRIIPS, I will be screwed by a legion of mind numbing acronyms from both sides of the Atlantic (PRIIPS, PFIC, FBAR, FATCA, bla bla)
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### Author:  [@jay](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/jay)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 10:28am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/solved-i-can-not-invest-in-us-domiciled-etf-anymore-with-ib/10208/71 "2023-04-29T10:28:50Z")
I believe Swissquote does accept US persons living in Switzerland and you can buy US ETFs. However, it’s a lot more expensive than IBKR, of course (fees and stamp duty tax).
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### Author:  [@\_MP](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/_MP)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 10:38am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/solved-i-can-not-invest-in-us-domiciled-etf-anymore-with-ib/10208/73 "2023-04-29T10:38:02Z")
Got blocked here too this morning…
During the upcoming days/weeks, I’ll consolidate all exchanges with IB support documented here, as well as your shared insights, and put together a doc for one of my contact at IB to see if they can provide additional infos.
Not sure the person will be able to clarify it all, but worth a try.
A dedicated blogpost will follow once things settle more clearly.
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### Author:  [@jay](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/jay)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 10:48am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/solved-i-can-not-invest-in-us-domiciled-etf-anymore-with-ib/10208/74 "2023-04-29T10:48:51Z")
Yes, as I don’t fulfill the trading requirements with my IBKR account alone, I’ve uploaded a statement from my second broker.
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### Author:  [@johndoe1](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/johndoe1)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 10:49am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/solved-i-can-not-invest-in-us-domiciled-etf-anymore-with-ib/10208/75 "2023-04-29T10:49:33Z")
> [@jay](#):
>
> Isn’t Charles Schwab available to Swiss residents anyway? It’s included in this comparison: [Best trading platform in Switzerland (Updated 2023)](https://www.mustachianpost.com/best-trading-platform-in-switzerland/)
Thanks, great to know that! Just found out that I could buy one of my favourite funds there without load.
Anyone got experience with Charles Schwab?
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### Author:  [@San\_Francisco](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/San_Francisco)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 10:58am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/solved-i-can-not-invest-in-us-domiciled-etf-anymore-with-ib/10208/76 "2023-04-29T10:58:39Z")
> [@jay](#):
>
> Swiss residents are certainly not subject to MiFID regulations solely on the basis of being a Swiss resident. However, it’s conceivable that the MiFID regulations adopted by the UK apply to all customers of IB UK independent of their residence
I think they may (and probably are) subject to regulation based on their Swiss place of residence.
You don‘t get to (legally) be a foreign broker that [officially services Swiss residents](https://www.interactivebrokers.eu/en/home.php) and say „_oh, but we aren’t subject to Swiss legislation that prohibits brokers from offering products to consumers_“.
Especially since Interactive Brokers (U.K.) seems to have an representation in Switzerland that is authorised by FINMA.
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### Author:  [@jay](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/jay)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 11:08am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/solved-i-can-not-invest-in-us-domiciled-etf-anymore-with-ib/10208/78 "2023-04-29T11:08:06Z")
> [@San\_Francisco](#):
>
> You don‘t get to be a foreign broker that is [officially servicing (targeting) Swiss residents](https://www.interactivebrokers.eu/en/home.php) and say „oh, we aren’t subject to Swiss legislation that prohibits brokers from offering products to consumers“.
As far as I know, Swiss FIDLEG doesn’t apply to foreign brokers even if they advertise that you can create an account as Swiss resident. I’m not certain about this, though. They do have an office in Switzerland for institutional clients but it might not be involved in the brokerage service provided to retail clients. At least our customer relationships are directly with IB UK, not anything from Switzerland.
If IB UK was classified as a Swiss intermediary, we’d also have to pay stamp duty tax.
Furthermore, IB is referring to MiFID client classification, which is similar to the FIDLEG client classification but not the same. Also, FIDLEG has an exception for execution-only brokers, which would apply here. That’s also why Swissquote can still allow customers to trade US ETFs.
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### Author:  [@nabalzbhf](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/nabalzbhf)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 11:10am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/solved-i-can-not-invest-in-us-domiciled-etf-anymore-with-ib/10208/79 "2023-04-29T11:10:58Z")
Yep, but they’re applying EEA legislation, not swiss here.
Also the swiss requirements for pro classification are different (eg there’s a NW based threshold that’s sufficient). Anyway I bet this wasn’t thought through (they’re in their right to apply whatever restriction they want but they definitely didn’t have to).
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### Author:  [@jay](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/jay)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 11:12am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/solved-i-can-not-invest-in-us-domiciled-etf-anymore-with-ib/10208/80 "2023-04-29T11:12:38Z")
No, it’s the total trade volume over the last 4 quarters that has to be at least USD 200k (and at least 40 trades in total), as I understand it. I normally wouldn’t meet this requirement either but it happens that I shuffled some ETFs around a year ago and now I should just about meet this. Let’s hope I got that right.
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### Author:  [@ChickenFat](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/ChickenFat)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 11:21am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/solved-i-can-not-invest-in-us-domiciled-etf-anymore-with-ib/10208/81 "2023-04-29T11:21:06Z")
In my account I also can’t buy. But there is a notice with the following text:
The link points here: [Frequently Asked Questions - IBKR](https://ibkr.info/article/4718)
In this KB one paragraph says
> **However, clients of IBKR have agreed to receive communications in English, and therefore if a KID or KIID is available in English all EEA and UK clients can trade the product regardless of their country of residence.**
I immediately asked the customer service how I can agree to receive communications in English (I asked in english) and I will report back, when I hear from them.
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### Author:  [@ChickenFat](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/ChickenFat)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 11:23am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/solved-i-can-not-invest-in-us-domiciled-etf-anymore-with-ib/10208/82 "2023-04-29T11:23:06Z")
Now, does someone here get a different notice _why_ his VT / VTI / … is not tradeable any more?
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### Author:  [@donato](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/donato)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 11:25am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/solved-i-can-not-invest-in-us-domiciled-etf-anymore-with-ib/10208/83 "2023-04-29T11:25:45Z")
They will likely reply that no Kiid exists at all for these etfs
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### Author:  [@San\_Francisco](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/San_Francisco)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 11:33am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/solved-i-can-not-invest-in-us-domiciled-etf-anymore-with-ib/10208/84 "2023-04-29T11:33:08Z")
> [@jay](#):
>
> As far as I know, Swiss FIDLEG doesn’t apply to foreign brokers even if they advertise that you can create an account as Swiss resident. I’m not certain about this, though.
> [@nabalzbhf](#):
>
> Yep, but they’re applying EEA legislation, not swiss here.
As far as I understand it, Swiss legislation does (will) apply. [See here](https://media.baerkarrer.ch/karmarun/image/upload/baer-karrer/06_SZWRSDA_2019_06_Bahar_Nedwed.pdf), for example (page 628 in particular), too.
Even though the implementation details and customer communication are still a bit muddy.
> [@jay](#):
>
> If IB UK was classified as a Swiss intermediary, we’d also have to pay stamp duty tax.
They aren’t Swiss - but they do have to adhere to (some) Swiss legislation as part of their cross-border business.
> [@jay](#):
>
> Also, FIDLEG has an exception for execution-only brokers, which would apply here. That’s also why Swissquote can still allow customers to trade US ETFs.
I bet that they won’t be doing this for long. It they still do it today at all (Do they? Yuh has stopped offering them as well).
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### Author:  [@mikasa](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/mikasa)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 12:04pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/solved-i-can-not-invest-in-us-domiciled-etf-anymore-with-ib/10208/85 "2023-04-29T12:04:32Z")
What is the second cheapest broker after IBKR that allows to buy US ETF?
I had just converted some CHF to USD to trade but the order was cancelled with “no trading permission” reason. Wondering where can I send these dollars to and trade now…
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### Author:  [@WorkInProgress](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/WorkInProgress)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2023, 12:23pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/solved-i-can-not-invest-in-us-domiciled-etf-anymore-with-ib/10208/87 "2023-04-29T12:23:58Z")
Do currency conversions count towards the total trade volume?
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