# Self-custody of cryptocurrencies **URL:** \ **Category:** Investing / Cryptocurrencies\ **Created:** [November 12, 2022, 8:45pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/self-custody-of-cryptocurrencies/9271 "2022-11-12T20:45:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Oliv](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/45deac/32.png) [@Oliv](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Oliv)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 7:59am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/self-custody-of-cryptocurrencies/9271/1 "2021-05-25T07:59:16Z")
I can recommend exodus as a great wallet, you can have it on your mobile phone as an app, it is really good and light. Usually, all it takes is to scan a QR code. A general comment, exchanges are not necessarily a “wallet” and this can create some frustrations. For instance, I cannot send btc from my kraken account to another kraken user because kraken already keeps them “together”. And when you do a transaction from an exchange, they usually do it in batch so it might take more time. That being said, I have never had “significant” delay so far. PS: don’t forget to activate coinbase pro to lower the fees, it is only one click ---
**Author:** ![kraphael](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/kraphael/32/6366_2.png) [@kraphael](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/kraphael)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 4:59pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/self-custody-of-cryptocurrencies/9271/2 "2022-11-12T16:59:39Z")
I don’t understand why you would even keep cryptos on exchanges. The whole point of invention of bitcoin was not to need to trust anybody but to own your money yourself instead. I don’t trust anybody at this point and use exchanges solely to exchange cryptos and then move my money back into cold storage. It’s easy: Not your key not your cryptos! ---
**Author:** ![RoadToMustachian](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@RoadToMustachian](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/RoadToMustachian)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 5:25pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/self-custody-of-cryptocurrencies/9271/3 "2022-11-12T17:25:00Z")
Totally agree and, even if late, I just bought my crypto cold storage yesterday 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Dr.PI](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/dr.pi/32/5299_2.png) [@Dr.PI](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Dr.PI)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 5:53pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/self-custody-of-cryptocurrencies/9271/4 "2022-11-12T17:53:22Z")
Well, then I ask you few things given the occasion. Probably naive once. - Can a cold storage device break and become non-functional? - I suppose there is a password to access your keys. What happens if I forget the password? What happens if I die, how can my wife access the keys? And how can I prevent anyone accessing the keys before I die? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.PI](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/dr.pi/32/5299_2.png) [@Dr.PI](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Dr.PI)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 5:54pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/self-custody-of-cryptocurrencies/9271/5 "2022-11-12T17:54:21Z")
> [@RoadToMustachian](#): > > I just bought my crypto cold storage yesterday I hope you have bought it in an offline shop and paid by cash. Where? ---
**Author:** ![kraphael](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/kraphael/32/6366_2.png) [@kraphael](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/kraphael)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 5:57pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/self-custody-of-cryptocurrencies/9271/6 "2022-11-12T17:57:31Z")
I bought mine in House of Satoshi in Zurich/Bern [https://www.house-of-satoshi.ch](https://www.house-of-satoshi.ch) or ordered directly from Shiftcrypto: > **[BitBox | The easiest way to keep your coins safe](https://bitbox.swiss/)** > > Swiss-made hardware and software for easy Bitcoin and cryptocurrency storage. Ledger Nano S is probably the most popular hardware wallet its pretty cheap and easy to use. It also has direct lido staking. It can be ordered directly from the manufacturer > **[Die klassische Ledger Nano-Reihe: zuverlässige Backup-Signer | Ledger](https://shop.ledger.com/de/pages/classic-ledger-nano-signers)** > > Entscheide dich beim Schutz deiner Krypto und NFTs für die branchenweit führenden Sicherheitslösungen. Sichere deine Investitionen mit einer zuverlässigen Methode zum Schutz deiner privaten Schlüssel ab – offline und außerhalb der Reichweite von... ---
**Author:** ![kraphael](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/kraphael/32/6366_2.png) [@kraphael](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/kraphael)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 6:07pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/self-custody-of-cryptocurrencies/9271/7 "2022-11-12T18:07:04Z")
> [@Dr.PI](#): > > Can a cold storage device break and become non-functional? It can but you can access your coins with a new wallet and the 24 key words that are generated when you create it. Bitbox also offers a backup on a ssd card. > [@Dr.PI](#): > > I suppose there is a password to access your keys. What happens if I forget the password? What happens if I die, how can my wife access the keys? And how can I prevent anyone accessing the keys before I die? If you forget you password and keywords, your money is lost. It is estimated that about 25% of all bitcoin were lost that way. I have mine written with a pen on paper in a bank deposit box. There are other tools that allow engraving them in a sheet of steel. Keywords should never be stored digitally. [https://backupsteel.com](https://backupsteel.com) ---
**Author:** ![stojano](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/stojano/32/4182_2.png) [@stojano](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/stojano)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 6:30pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/self-custody-of-cryptocurrencies/9271/8 "2022-11-12T18:30:48Z")
> [@Staking Crypto - Best platform](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/staking-crypto-best-platform/7494/174): > > As for Blockfi, sorry if you have funds there, you can consider them lost 😢 Well, I’ve written ca 0.5% of my Portfolio off (Celsius, BlockFi). But like MtGox ([Market Analysis | Capital.com](https://capital.com/mt-gox-refund-repayment-details-deadline)) maybe one day it will be a refund 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Oliv](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/45deac/32.png) [@Oliv](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Oliv)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 7:07pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/self-custody-of-cryptocurrencies/9271/9 "2022-11-12T19:07:41Z")
> [@Dr.PI](#): > > Can a cold storage device break and become non-functional? That’s a small misunderstanding due to the name, you don’t actually store anything with “cold storage”, it is just a signature. If it is damaged or stolen, you can simply buy a new one and reset it with your seed phrase 👍 ---
**Author:** ![nabalzbhf](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/nabalzbhf/32/3277_2.png) [@nabalzbhf](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/nabalzbhf)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 8:25pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/self-custody-of-cryptocurrencies/9271/10 "2022-11-12T20:25:29Z")
> [@kraphael](#): > > I don’t understand why you would even keep cryptos on exchanges. This thread is about staking, by definition this isn’t compatible with cold storage, right? ---
**Author:** ![kraphael](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/kraphael/32/6366_2.png) [@kraphael](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/kraphael)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 8:30pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/self-custody-of-cryptocurrencies/9271/11 "2022-11-12T20:30:49Z")
> [@nabalzbhf](#): > > This thread is about staking, but definition this isn’t compatible with cold storage, right? True, but my point was: You can stake Etherium and many other coins directly out of your own personal hardware wallet, there is no need trust an exchange or other company and hand over your cryptos ---
**Author:** ![johndoe1](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/13edae/32.png) [@johndoe1](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/johndoe1)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 8:38pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/self-custody-of-cryptocurrencies/9271/12 "2022-11-12T20:38:39Z")
Interesting, I’ve thought you cannot stake without lending out your cryptos (thereby risking not to get them back). So if that’s not the case, how does it work? ---
**Author:** ![kraphael](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/kraphael/32/6366_2.png) [@kraphael](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/kraphael)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 8:45pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/self-custody-of-cryptocurrencies/9271/13 "2022-11-12T20:45:22Z")
You interact directly with the defi protocols like LIDO > **[Crypto staking made simple & secure – Ledger Wallet Official App | Ledger](https://shop.ledger.com/pages/staking)** > > Stake ETH, SOL, ATOM, DOT and more via Ledger Wallet™, the all-in-one crypto app. Earn crypto rewards simply. Grow your digital assets portfolio. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.PI](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/dr.pi/32/5299_2.png) [@Dr.PI](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Dr.PI)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 8:17am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/self-custody-of-cryptocurrencies/9271/14 "2022-11-13T08:17:05Z")
> [@Oliv](#): > > If it is damaged or stolen, you can simply buy a new one and reset it with your seed phrase Ok, so there are no miracles after all and in the end the seed phrase IS your private keys and your wallet. I am still not convinced that a hardware wallet is always good. After all, it’s a physical evidence that you own crypto, and don’t tell me about devices that fake a different set of private keys. Now let’s say I am doing following. I don’t need a regular access to my crypto. I want to keep and accumulate them (let’s say Bitcoin only) for a very long time. I take a PC without a hard drive, create a Linux live CD (hope they still exist), start live CD, boot into the system created on the ram disk. I connect internet, install a crypto wallet program, write down the seed phrase AND the public Bitcoin address. I shut down the PC, all information is gone. Now I am sending Bitcoin to the address that I have written down. I don’t need my private or personal keys to check the balance and transaction history of my address. With the known address I can use Blockchain scanner to see them on chain. After 10 years of accumulation I have 10 million CHF (3 million inflation corrected) worth of Bitcoin in my account. I take my seed phrase, take any crypto wallet, restore keys from the seed phrase, transfer them in portions to Union Bitcoin of Switzerland or Crypto Suisse, sell and live happily ever after. Do you see anything wrong with the technical aspects of this plan? ---
**Author:** ![kraphael](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/kraphael/32/6366_2.png) [@kraphael](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/kraphael)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 8:28am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/self-custody-of-cryptocurrencies/9271/15 "2022-11-13T08:28:33Z")
You have basically described a crypto paper wallet that was common in the pre 2017. It is pretty inconvenient but completely independent of third parties and offline and is still often used for the long term storage of large amounts of bitcoin. ---
**Author:** ![Oliv](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/o/45deac/32.png) [@Oliv](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Oliv)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 8:47am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/self-custody-of-cryptocurrencies/9271/16 "2022-11-13T08:47:45Z")
So personally I chose to go seedless because of the associated risk. But if you go seedless, you need a robust multisig setup with several hardware wallets to do the signature. I find it more secure for the way I like to operate. ---
**Author:** ![kraphael](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/kraphael/32/6366_2.png) [@kraphael](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/kraphael)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 8:58am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/self-custody-of-cryptocurrencies/9271/17 "2022-11-13T08:58:18Z")
> [@Oliv](#): > > So personally I chose to go seedless because of the associated risk. Does that mean that you still need to sign all transactions with several wallets stored in different safe locations or does somebody else that you trust need so sign? How does the backup work if the house burns down? ---
**Author:** ![ItalianEngineer](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/i/3ec8ea/32.png) [@ItalianEngineer](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/ItalianEngineer)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 9:07pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/self-custody-of-cryptocurrencies/9271/18 "2022-11-13T21:07:12Z")
I apologize for eventually oversimplifing the topic, but that’s what I could understand so far from your very detailed and technical posts. All what you need is basically only the 24-character key and than a physical wallet can be easily restored. So basically just need to write on a piece of paper or engrave on a piece of steel the key and store it safely in a caveau of a bank. Did I understand well? ---
**Author:** ![kraphael](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/kraphael/32/6366_2.png) [@kraphael](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/kraphael)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 10:11pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/self-custody-of-cryptocurrencies/9271/19 "2022-11-13T22:11:52Z")
That is correct. it’s a phrase of 24 or sometimes 12 randomly generated words with which you can restore your wallet. it looks something like this: ![Bildschirmfoto 2022-11-13 um 23.12.18](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/uploads/default/original/2X/d/da691a36cc2a50042f8b9b07df9f57ca1c3f0862.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![dabeda](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/d/ccd318/32.png) [@dabeda](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/dabeda)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2022, 7:52am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/self-custody-of-cryptocurrencies/9271/20 "2022-11-14T07:52:25Z")
What I never really understand with people repeating “not your key not your crypto” is that it seems to imply that those with hardwallet keys are not impacted by such events. While it’s true that you kept the same amount of coins/tokens, their exchange rate to fiat dropped significantly and so, unless you live completely in a crypto world, the purchasing power was changed. [Next page](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/self-custody-of-cryptocurrencies/9271.md?page=2)