Quality of discussions

[Bojack]

@trotro

I think this very old blog post has a lot to say about why more moderation might be a good thing

Thanks. I didn’t like that he called them “fools”, I don’t think we’re dealing with fools here. I guess my takeaway from that blog post is:

Anyone can walk in. And anyone can walk out. And so an online community must stay fun to stay alive.

So to me the question is: what is fun, and who is supposed to have fun? Or maybe it’s just the aggregate sum of all users?

I guess that is a good lens to look through. Does a given contribution increase the overall fun / enjoyment for all users? I think for me it was hard to censor Patron or CHRad, because I personally do enjoy conversation on controversial topics, and I like when my beliefs are questioned, and I don’t mind the harsh tone. But of course, I’m not representative of the majority of the forum population.

@Daniel

I don’t see banning entire topics as beneficial.

I see your point. I was also thinking about this. If a certain topic is engaging and many users have fun discussing it, who cares if it’s not personal finance. I think the problem starts when someone opens this website, reads a post, and feels offended, put off, or forced to write a lengthy retort to correct the things he/she doesn’t agree with. That’s not fun.

[lowyield]

Late to the party, but I wanted to give a thanks to @SteveDB for bringing this up and to all of you for the valid contributions. And especially the mods’ “thankless” job.

I’m not on bogleheads or reddit, this is my only source so I can’t compare the quality of the discussion vs. the other outlets, however in my view this forum continues to be an amazing trove of information for expats and locals in Switzerland alike. It genuinely improved my life, sometimes helped through unexpected PMs, saved money, etc.

I would loathe to have too strict a policy in regards to allowed topics, as some of the QoL ones are truly outstanding and eye-opening, and the difference of opinions is one of the factors contributing to the value here.

I think the problem is not the topic, but the tone in which ideas are sometimes expressed (and perhaps the instinct of always veering towards expressing them even when slightly OT), and therefore great to see the new moderation policy striking the balance between policing content and tone. Thanks guys.

[_MP]

So, after the very quick and efficient new forum policy posted by @Julianek and @Bojack of yesterday (thanks again for your work, really), I crafted a more detailed “Welcome + Guidelines” message. I couldn’t wait weeks to find a proper and long term solution.

Updated guidelines as of 18.08.2022

You can find them here: https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/welcome-to-the-swiss-fire-forum-guidelines/
It’s pinned voluntarily on top of all other posts for newcomers.

It’s based on the Discourse template which focuses on positivity versus “Don’t do this, don’t do that”. You will also find a bit of the subreddit inspiration mentioned above (thx again this this).

It may be lengthy, and it’s OK, as its main goal will be for mods to be able to refer to it as each situation will require it.

Update ToS as of 18.08.2022

I leverage this update opportunity to clarify the forum content license.

TL;DR;

Who is allowed to republish the content posted on this forum?

1. Only the author
2. Anyone who got the written authorization by the author

Last note

I wish for this forum to remain a place where we all have fun, and support each other in our growth.
All users spent so much time creating and exchanging valuable content since 2016, that it’d be sad to see people go away.

Finally, we Mustachians are all lifelong learners, be it as reader, poster, mod, or admin. So let’s use this discussion constructively for our community’s future

[dbu]

Thanks all 3 of you!

Comment on wording:
Why “support each Swiss”?
Doubt that there are only people with CH passport here.
You could just put “…everyone in their…”

[_MP]

Thanks for the feedback, fixed

[Grog]

@Bojack

I think for me it was hard to censor Patron or CHRad, because I personally do enjoy conversation on controversial topics, and I like when my beliefs are questioned, and I don’t mind the harsh tone.

I agree, I like it as well, but when Fake News or false science / debunked studies are used to make a point, then it becomes dangerous. You know it very well from the electric cars FUD: the infamous Swedish studies (an electric car requires 250k km for environmental benefit to kick in) has been quoted all over the internet while being false. This has happened for other studies here in this forum, so it’s important to keep the ability to call out fake news and other stuff. So yes to discussions, no to discussion where one side is using wrong information.

In any case this should happen way less under this new policies. There is not a lot of science around FIRE or studies.

[JMH]

Also late to the party and sorry I’m late contributing to this thread but felt strongly enough to voice my support in that it’s right on the money - this is exactly why I took a few months break from the forum.

@nabalzbhf

It’s still part of the forum, the forum is a community you can’t ignore that.

Currently the 6th thread showing up for someone discovering the forum (not logged in) is debating things that I wouldn’t want to be associated with (and that I’m sure would fairly reliably put off 50% or more of the population of contributing to the forum, as it’s the inverse of welcoming).

And as @nabalzbhf correctly highlighted early on the discussion is why people come to this forum in the first place…at least in my case I came to discuss FIRE and Mustachian ideas (at whatever level)…the moment there is more discussion on politics, religion, or anything else the forum is becoming too generalised and defeats it’s own purpose. Less is more sometimes…quality above quantity.

Lastly, I am fully aligned to @Guillaume_GVA and follow the same way of working: I actually found 75% more quality by blocking only 1 user who seemed to take pleasure in provocation using debunked arguments as @Grog already commented on - I get enough provocation without choice, so where I can, I will always avoid it rather than have to rationalise with someone who didn’t rationalise themselves into the position they are adamantly defending.

So overall: as a general rule it’s easier to block specific « trolls » individually but limiting the forum’s attractiveness for those trolls by only having active threads that touch on the core theme of the forum…looking forward to avoiding anything that is better debated on a more general social media platform.

Thanks to the volunteer mods, thx to @SteveDB for opening the discussion and thanks to @_MP for the update.

Looking forward to learning so more with your support! Glad to have checked in again, great start to 2023.