[Please advise] Apartment found...now, the evergreen questions

To be honest I don t like having a second pillar because of the ridiculous return they generate, I’d rather invest the money myself and I guess if I was buying I’d use the opportunity to withdraw and I would close the insurance gap it creates with a pure risk insurance. Also when I retire I plan to withdraw instead of taking the annuity so spreading withdrawals over several years makes also sense to lower the exit tax.

You can ask for the offers associated with the different scenarios (pledging 2nd, withdrawal, 3rd pillar, etc.) to understand the effect on the interest rate they offer and see what fits you best.

1 Like

Hi 314rch, thanks a lot for sharing the file. Definetely helpful to better understand the implications just described. Cheers

1 Like

Hi HoiZame, well noted. I will follow your advises and ask the different options to understand the effect of those rates. Many thanks

Hi all,

I would like to share with you the latest update on the development of our apartment purchase.

The real estate agency contacted us, proposing to have the meeting with the notary for the “promise of payment” mid of April, and they also forwarded us the contract. So - as usual - I do have some questions I hope some of you may help to address.

  1. Appointment date. Since the apartment will be released November 2023, is it fair practice to anticipate so much the notary appoinemtn (19-month before the planned release date)?
    Would you suggest to get back to the real-estate agency asking for to postpone the meeting (and most of all, it would make sense)?

  2. The proposal of the Mortgage Consultant for the 3A. He proposed a 3a with a annual policy of 6’883 (where 202 out of this, will be the insurance for the loss of earnings), for a total of 24 years.
    I see that the capital guaranteed will be cca 134K CHF, against the 165K CHF I will be effectively investing. Do I miss something here, or this is just a “------”?
    Shouldn’t be this 3a meant to cover the ammortization? Shall I just ask him to provide an offer exclusively for having the 3a for the amortization only?

  3. The contract iself. It has been written that delivery date is 30 November, 2023. But reading carefully all the passages of the document I see these notes:
    *"Der Besitzesantritt mit Übergang von Nutzen, Lasten und Gefahr auf die Käuferschaft findet statt mit der Fertigstellung und Bezugsbereitschaft der Kaufgrundstücke, welche bis spätes-tens 30. November 2023 zu erfolgen hat. […]
    Wird die Fertigstellung der Kaufgrundstücke infolge höherer Gewalt, wie aus ausserordentli-chen klimatischen Einflüssen, Streiks, Materialmangel, behördlichen Massnahmen, Pande-mie-Einschränkungen oder privatrechtlichen Einsprachen verzögert, so verschiebt sich der Besitzesantritt ohne weiteres und ohne Rechtsansprüche der Käuferschaft um die Dauer der Verzögerung hinaus.
    Nach Ablauf der vorgenannten Frist ist die säumige Partei in Verzug. Bei Verzug der Verkäu-ferschaft als auch bei Verzug der Käuferschaft ist der säumigen Partei eine Nachfrist im Sinne von Art. 107 OR anzusetzen. Art. 214 OR über den Käuferverzug findet keine Anwendung."
    If google translate and my understanding is not completely wrong, I see that in case of such events (force majeure, such as extraordinary climatic influences, strikes, lack of material, official measures, pandemic restrictions or objections under private law…. which are basically collecting whatever Murphy could think about), there is no way to object to that and ask the company to pay penanties, right? Is that a common practice with all such kind of contracts, or there is a chance request amendment of the latter?
    Reason why I’m asking: in case of effective delays with the release of the apartment, I understood that the Bank will apply penalties (not sure what is the amount, but it’s an incremental value linked to the extra period involved) and these will be paid by the mortgage owner, so my self. Are you aware of such constraint too? Would you advise to ask to a Laywer specialized into real-estate?

Thanks for your patience to read my questions and thank you in advance for whatever advise you can bring.

Cheers,
Cappuccio

1 Like

Hi all,

For the sake of completeness I would like to share with you the latest update in that regard.

Appointment date - I managed to request a postponment due to private reason. I guess, that was the easy part of the game.

The proposal of the Mortgage Consultant for the 3A. I’m still trying to understand the product.

The contract iself. - I engaged a lawyer expert on real estate. Contract was good (pretty standard), just few notes he advised me to x-check with the seller. The firms involved are also OK (seen as Pro, in that sector). Of course, here depends on the banks the effects with the delay/anticipation of the delivery may be different: some banks will charge 0.05% for each delayed month (for the entire duration of the hypo), other just ask to start paying intererest at the T0. Some banks allow to anticipate the payment should the release date be anticipated in respect to the original due-date, some other simply not.

Well, I guess with that the “ever-green” questions came into an end. Now it’s time for more deep diving ones - and for that likely a new thread is deserved.

Many thanks to you all!

Best,
Cappuccio

1 Like

It’s up to you. All situations are different. There is no one size fits all.

Did you ask to the consultant ? He’s here to respond to your questions.
If you don’t understand the product you’re investing into for the next 24 years, don’t go for it.

Alternatively, you could use the help of a neutral adviser who will be able to guide you, respond to your questions.

Hi Guillaume - I already addressed to the consultant those questions. I look forward next appointment to discuss. But of course, I do prefer benefit of the feedback/input coming from the forum, as more “neutral” :slight_smile:

Yes, this is called indirect ammoritzation.

I would not accept a mixed insurance & investment 3a product, especially not one with a guaranteed payout lower than what you pay in. These are exactly the 3a products which screw you over big time and where the so callend consultants make their fat commissions. Search in the forum for threads of people who want to get out of their Helvetia, SwissLife, etc. and contracts, because their are getting screwed. Be extra cautious if the product is from an insurance company.

I would only consider a passively managed investment 3a product (no insurance component). UBS offers that trough their “Vitainvest Passive” funds at a reasonable total cost, others probably as well.

2 Likes