Do not worry. It’s not that you have a problem or something. Indeed you get insurance as well.
As long as you understand the following, there is not much to worry about
invested money could have had better returns somewhere else
insurance costs might be lower if purchased individually
lack of flexibility (in terms of contribution amount and frequency)
buying commissions / fees
I suggest you just calculate what is your total cost of ownership to own this policy
annual ongoing fees
transactions fees at time of premium payment
insurance costs (if on top of ongoing fees)
exit charges (if any)
One point worth considering though-: normally people like to own different 3a accounts to allow for staggered withdrawal at time of retirement to optimise withdrawal tax. If you are linked to one policy, then it might not be possible.
Just wondering if you have been invested for 2 years, your contribution should have been 13.5-14K. Isn’t it? Why is it only 10K? Where is the rest? Lost in fees or something else?
Well, they didn’t lie, they just didn’t tell the whole truth and didn’t offer information not specifically requested. Wouldn’t hold up in a court of law. The 3A can always be transferred, but there can be costs.
Now this is indeed problematic but it’s cancelled out by you signing, of your own free will.
This suggests that there was no surrender value, otherwise you’d get a hard letter in the post with the final surrender value and confirmation of its transfer to another 3A provider. That was in my case.
This also sounds fishy AF. If you’re on a B permit you won’t have to leave, if you’re not on a B permit my understanding is that having insurance or not makes not a shred of a difference to immigration.
Nah, most people I know who’re uninterested in investing have a 3A with their bank for the tax credit and that’s it. Staggered 3A withdrawals are a bit more advanced for most people - and will likely be patched by the time many of us reach the withdrawal age. For the rest, I stand by like a zealot that insurance 3A is a terrible investment, the system is rigged to prey on newcomers who think everything is squeaky clean in Switzerland.
Hi @Mirager I agree with everything you said. Unfortunately, as I said, I was more naive at that time and did not know how it worked. There is nothing that “legally” can be used on my hand. Just a huge and expensive learning for me to use in life.
However, I really felt badly scammed, so horrible. And most importantly I felt I did not know how to exit this situation. Then fortunately I read online and I felt less alone.
For sure I have surrender value I am entitled to, which was also mentioned by the broker in his pathetic email to convince me to stay once again (but he did not say how much). I am waiting for the letter of confirmation from AXA, I am currently abroad and anyway I sent the letter and documents only 4 days ago. So hopefully it will be there waiting for me as soon as I am back next week.
I could see my surrender value on my account, in Swisslife’s site, you can sadly expect to lose ~40% of your contributions. You’re not the first who got done, so did I and many many many others…
@Mr.Paprika would you also send the info over to me? I am going through the same and wanted to know more. I read already all your messages in the conversation but if there is anything else, would you let me know?
In short, a lot of the responses to this thread are incorrect and frankly dangerous.
Re the AXA SmartFlex product, anybody pointing out it ‘has insurance’ is incorrect. It explicitly does not have insurance included unless otherwise requested. In fact, it operates on a premium refund model, whereby should anything untoward happen to you, your next of kin receive virtually everything you have put in as a refund. This is not insurance.
As for other commenters saying the returns are poorer than the banks, that’s laughable. AXA SmartFlex’s performance is here: AXA (CH) Strategy Fund - Global Equity CHF S Distribution CHF - AXA IM CH - Private
even allowing for last Monday’s dip in the market, the global fund has returned 49% over 5 years and 3 months. At times it was nearer 60%. Over 5 years, at 0.47% fee, you are still up roughly 46.5%, in other words about 9.3%. All of the data is clearly available on the attached link.
There is so much misinformation and frankly dangerous conjecture in this thread. If you are uncertain or want a second opinion always consult an independent financial advisor.
As you obviously have a strong opinion about this product, can you tell me why I should take this, when the performance looks the same as a MSCI ACWI with Developed Markets Hedged CHF Net?
I don’t expect AXA to beat the market so I’m not surprised that it only matches it. But to what price? TER looks okay but you usually have a ‘Ausgabekomission’ that can be up to 3.07%, no? If you actually get such a deal you would perform obviously worse than if you do a similar strategy at e.g. Finpension or VIAC.
Enlighten me if I havent seen through why this product is a good deal.
Also they were replying to someone who was sold a smartflex with an insurance component without understanding the costs, so even if without insurance component it’s not as bad, that wasn’t the case here.
I paid 64,758 in 10 years, then decided to stop it in order to avoid paying for this unfair product for another 23 years.
I got back 40,751 (as I lived abroad then)
I lost 24,000
A lot of money must have gone to the “advisor”. Some money (3,885) I had to pay for additional effort of the company because I made monthly payments instead of annual payments. What was very surprising was the exceptionally low performance of the active funds I was invested in. I was “promised” 2.8% performance but when I recaclulated after 10 years, the performance was about 0.1%. I guess the active funds had huge management fees that destroyed the performance.
I could have diluted the pain by investing in this product until my retirement and facing the pain then. But I realised that with a standard 3a product and passive funds (ETFs) I could gain more and that I didn’t need the insurance part (as the pension fund offered some benefits in catastrophic scenarios).
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