We have 2 kids under 3yo in private daycares in Geneva.
6200 CHF per month for both.
Our financial situation is a mess. We just wait to get older. We work both 100%. No relatives around as we moved here alone before the kids.
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For me, the evenings and weekends is already plenty of time with the kids! 
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On 1 yea it should get better.
No chance to get a public daycare spot for the second one ?
It’s longer to lend on Rice Gauche.
Clearly I should open a private daycare instead of doing … something else 
How are these daycares not crazy profitable?
Come to think about it, they probably are, if you were to manage them, just a constant headache managing employees and parents.
We have been waiting to the waiting list for public for 1y already. No luck.
Our oldest one will start primary school next September so this will lead to a cost of around 4000 instead of 6200 that we have now.
This is the sad reality about raising young children in Switzerland and working at the same time.
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Indeed.
However given that employees need to be specifically qualified I guess their salaries need to be also high enough.
https://emploi-service-public.ch/educatrice-de-la-petite-enfance-salaire
In any case, our financial plans and savings are hurting. A lot.
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If I understand correctly
- 1 carer per 3 kids
- They should be decently paid and educated
- The space/amenities need to be rented/managed
Simple math says that 3x3000 (in this case) should cover for all of those, so not sure how much “profit per child” there remains in the end. 
(But I don’t know the exact economics of the 3rd point of course)
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They are basically just about breaking even.
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Looking at the status of many private Kita’s, I totally agree with you. Probably it’s more like 4 to 5 kids per carer, given that the majority doesn’t do full time 5 days a week. But I suspect that carer should be paid anyway, almost full time. Plus most Kita’s are open 11 to 12 hours a day, meaning they need also shifts. A total nightmare if you put together the variability of each kid’s schedule and each carer working hours/days.
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How much does kids cost? So far our kids (8 & 11) have cost us over 500k….
Table below includes daycare/Mittagstisch, clothes, toys, hobbies, health insurance, random family outings etc. and adds up to over 400k over 10 years. A big portion of it is daycare cost.
In addition to that, per month I’d say it’s 500-1000 CHF higher rent to have a flat suitable for kids (location and size).
The sum does not include vacation/travel, which is also more expensive due to multiple tickets needed and being forced to travel during school holidays.
As others have mentioned, there are some tax reductions/benefits that mitigate the impact a bit.
Still, worth every penny.
| Year | Cost |
|---|---|
| 2014 | 9k |
| 2015 | 29k |
| 2016 | 35k |
| 2017 | 54k |
| 2018 | 64k |
| 2019 | 50k |
| 2020 | 55k |
| 2021 | 38k |
| 2022 | 22k |
| 2023 | 26k |
| 2024 | 29k |
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I love this english-ization of a german term 
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When you list it out like that, it does look pretty horrific!
Big ones:
- Loss of earnings (quit job, part-time, going easy, not going for promotions, cutting out travel)
- Daycare
- Having to move house/bigger house
- More expensive holidays, peak travel times, having to find entertainment/cover during school holidays
- Medical fees and insurance
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You could go full circle on all those FIRE ideas and blame the kids for giving you more purpose, living in a nice, big place, spending less time at work and do stuff together
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No matter how kind you are, German children are kinder.
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Ready to cry? The below is only for childcare.
We have 2 kids, 14 months difference. They both attend private Creches.
We are at 6200 CHF per month now (and have been like that since the second kid turned 1yo, 1.5y ago).
A complete disaster. Oldest will attend primary school in 1.5 y from now so the cost will drop to something around 4000 CHF per month.
Let alone the rent that is 4k to have 3 bedrooms or more than 90m2 in Geneva.
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Oh mate, I can completely relate to everything you said.
We have a 3yo and 2yo.. in Geneva…without any family to help…
We have a Tagesmutter(she is doing that privately so she sets her own rates). As she always cared for a lot of children we only pay 45 CHF per day and child. But as she is older we don’t know how long she will work. I have no idea what we would do without her as there is no daycare here and the after school care is only on Tuesday and Thursday and not on any school free afternoon.
We also both work 80 %, but this is not a financial reason but to have more time with the children.
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Here in kt Bern it is approx 600.-/month for 1 day/week (i think below 12 months it is more expensive)
I dont think we have such thing like private pr public kita. Altought there are some kitas from the city Bern. But costs are imho similar.
Subsidies are offered through the kibon system, but from ca 180k income you do not get any subsidies (depending on household size)
Also since 1-2 years there are rather to much kita places, specially in the city.
We have a friend owning her own kita. She has employed more people than required by the law, pays below minimum salary and gives additional holidays. Still she makes a decent living from what I can tell.
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I should add opportunity cost too. We were looking at private schooling which would increase costs by a certain amount per month and even when you multiplied it out by the number of years seemed manageable.
Only when you put it into a cash flow spreadsheet do you see the real impact on your finances as the opportunity costs compounded over time grows to multiples of the base amount. At one point I had to question whether it would be more beneficial to just buy them a 1/3 of a house with the money instead.
I do like the fact that FI people tend to rationally calculate the financial impacts of various actions, but this is exaggerated, I think. One also have to spend when it makes sense.
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