# Pants down: yearly spending! **URL:** \ **Category:** Share your story\ **Created:** [September 9, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/pants-down-yearly-spending/1249 "2018-09-09T20:07:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![user137](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/user137/32/15454_2.png) [@user137](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/user137)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 7:50pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/pants-down-yearly-spending/1249/121 "2021-01-07T19:50:18Z")
Zürich city is 100 francs (per person) more expensive than anything else in the Canton. I pay 770 for a family of 3 with Sanitas with all 3 on Family supplementary insurance (and a 2500 deductible). No way to save more here. If we moved out of town it would only be about 550 francs. ---
**Author:** ![user137](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/user137/32/15454_2.png) [@user137](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/user137)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2021, 7:54pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/pants-down-yearly-spending/1249/122 "2021-01-07T19:54:13Z")
> [@rolandinho](#): > > 350 communication How do you do that? Internet access (500ish) 2 mobile abos for 2 adults (500ish), no TV, no billag (365)? Must be at least 1000 more. ---
**Author:** ![rolandinho](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/rolandinho/32/423_2.png) [@rolandinho](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/rolandinho)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2021, 9:04am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/pants-down-yearly-spending/1249/123 "2021-01-08T09:04:14Z")
We don’t have a TV. We pay Billag though, but I put that under services. 350 = 29x12 = I have an unlimited mobile abo (incl data) for 29 p.m. (Salt Swiss XXL, special offers come around regularly), which I tether/hotspot for internet at home. Speeds of approx. 60Mbps down and 50Mbps is fine for our use case (general surfing, bit of video, bit of TV, now and then a torrent) My partner has a work mobile phone, which she is allowed to use “reasonably” privately. ---
**Author:** ![Loic](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/l/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Loic](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Loic)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 2:51pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/pants-down-yearly-spending/1249/124 "2021-01-09T14:51:42Z")
We are a maried couple in our mid 30s, no child. We put each month in a shared account a total of 2500-. for the household expenses. It pays all the usual expenses of a couple, including taxes. Then we each have to pay for our health insurance (2550 \*2), travel (approx 1000.- in total), and personal expenses. All in all, I would say that we spent a total of CHF 40 000.- for two, including taxes. ---
**Author:** ![user137](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/user137/32/15454_2.png) [@user137](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/user137)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 7:19pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/pants-down-yearly-spending/1249/125 "2021-01-09T19:19:41Z")
> [@Loic](#): > > All in all, I would say that we spent a total of CHF 40 000.- for two, including taxes. Location info would’ve been useful as well 🙂 2500 is barely enough for monthly rent in ZH for instance 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Loic](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/l/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Loic](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Loic)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2021, 8:23pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/pants-down-yearly-spending/1249/126 "2021-01-09T20:23:01Z")
You’re right, we live in canton Fribourg. We have a mortgage on a 2.5 room flat and pay approx. 950.- /month for the bank interests, amortization, and co-ownership expenses. The same kind of flat would cost us approx 1400/1500.- to rent. ---
**Author:** ![Bojack](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/bojack/32/281_2.png) [@Bojack](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Bojack)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 11:59am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/pants-down-yearly-spending/1249/127 "2021-01-15T11:59:20Z")
Here’s my data for 2020. ![image](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/uploads/default/original/2X/7/75faafc9f7904e731698b332aeed4d3fa5ff6d5e.png) ![image](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/uploads/default/original/2X/7/7d83062b6cf06d6b7fae477b35405bde67987932.png) Explanation: - Social: social contributions like AHV etc - Withholding: income tax at source, only a fraction of the year available - Contribution: a “commission” I pay to my boss on my income ---
**Author:** ![s-g](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/s-g/32/4530_2.png) [@s-g](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/s-g)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 12:43pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/pants-down-yearly-spending/1249/128 "2021-01-15T12:43:36Z")
> [@Bojack](#): > > - Contribution: a “commission” I pay to my boss on my income That “commission” is massive…it’s 3 times the withholding taxes 😳 Any way to renegotiate it with your employer? ---
**Author:** ![MrCheese](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/mrcheese/32/2500_2.png) [@MrCheese](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/MrCheese)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 12:50pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/pants-down-yearly-spending/1249/129 "2021-01-15T12:50:58Z")
That’s unfortunately how IT consulting works… somebody has the contacts with the project and companies that need someone and they want to get their fair share. I call consulting “body selling/prostitution” due to that… ---
**Author:** ![Bojack](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/bojack/32/281_2.png) [@Bojack](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Bojack)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 1:26pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/pants-down-yearly-spending/1249/130 "2021-01-15T13:26:38Z")
> [@s-g](#): > > That “commission” is massive…it’s 3 times the withholding taxes It’s 10% of the revenue. It’s not that high, some true body leasing companies charge 25%. Within this 10% I have all the admin stuff and the networking (boss/colleagues help me find further projects). In the end this 10% is a fair price to pay for not having to run your own company. Also, notice that I wrote that the withholding tax is not in full. That’s because I switched to C permit mid-year. Here you have 2019 with full withholding tax. Also, I made the tax declaration and somehow I need to pay 60’000 income tax, so the withholding tax was not enough. ![image](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/uploads/default/original/2X/8/8afbb2a7606ee1220a5bf05395611561323e9b77.png) So you can see that my private expenses are maybe 1/3 of my total expenses (when taxes and “business running costs” are included). That’s why I don’t play the “share your savings rate” game any more. I don’t even know how to count it to make sense. > [@MrCheese](#): > > I call consulting “body selling/prostitution” due to that… I don’t know if we’re talking about the same thing. I know my bosses personally and everything is transparent at the company. They are not an HR company that sells skilled workforce at a commission. In my profession, the clients attach higher value to- and put bigger trust in companies than in freelancers. So I could start my own company, convince some people to join, build my network, but it all costs time and energy. ---
**Author:** ![Bojack](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/bojack/32/281_2.png) [@Bojack](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Bojack)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2021, 1:31pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/pants-down-yearly-spending/1249/131 "2021-01-15T13:31:56Z")
By the way, if you want to talk about huge commission, then think about when I worked in Poland for a Swiss company with a gross salary of 2000 CHF. All included, their costs of having me employed were maybe 4000 CHF. And they charged the client over 1000 CHF for every day of my work. And I think that’s how most fixed employment jobs work. You bring 2-3x more benefit to your employer than you earn. You show up on time and get your paycheck, don’t worry about the rest. Oh and if someone says we have low taxes and need to raise them: I pay more for income tax than for all my living costs combined. I think that’s enough contribution from my side? ---
**Author:** ![Bojack](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/bojack/32/281_2.png) [@Bojack](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Bojack)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2021, 6:46am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/pants-down-yearly-spending/1249/132 "2021-01-16T06:46:09Z")
9 posts were split to a new topic: [Fairness of Income Tax](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/fairness-of-income-tax/5262) ---
**Author:** ![dbu](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/dbu/32/1552_2.png) [@dbu](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/dbu)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 3:29pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/pants-down-yearly-spending/1249/133 "2021-12-28T15:29:24Z")
I moved to ZH in the second half of this year, thus having a lot of variable expenses along the way. But I inferred from the last 2 months a relatively “standard” image of “fixed” monthly expenses (for 1 person). I don’t count the taxes here, but they are in the bigger gross-net-investments picture. Likewise for the other discretionary expenses like fuel, travel, gifts, donations, other sports and leisure - including those it would probably come close to 4k. So that would amount to **44-48k CHF yearly** expenses. Now the monthly breakdown, with pretty random categories 😁 (y/q are yearly/quarterly transformed into monthly). | Expenses | 3599 | | --- | --- | | Rent | 1929 | | Groceries, food and drinks | 900 | | Health insurance | 315 | | Insurances car, moto, home, liability (y) | 115 | | Internet, mobile, subscriptions; Serafe (y) | 97 | | Cleaning lady | 80 | | Gym | 59 | | Road tax car, moto (y) | 29 | | Utilities EWZ (q) | 25 | | Parking ZH car (y) | 25 | | Haircut | 25 | Trimming down potential that I see: - Rent - I will not be moving anytime soon, so it will have to stay as is for a while - Food outside - I could try to cut down a hundred or so (this is somewhat of an “upper limit” anyway - usually it’s around 250 at work, 300 groceries, rest outside with gf and friends) - Health insurance - I was 4 days too late to get rid of the non-compulsory part with Swica this year. It will get cut down to ~270 chf next year. - Vehicle insurances - I could try to further optimize next season, this time around I cut down from vollkasko to teilkasko at least (but won’t be getting rid of vehicles themselves, as they provide me with the “non-economical” quality of life I want) ---
**Author:** ![Slutmachine](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Slutmachine](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Slutmachine)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 7:20pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/pants-down-yearly-spending/1249/134 "2021-12-28T19:20:54Z")
I would be interested to see the breakdown of the monthly CHF 107 as Serafe alone accounts for 28… What does the cleaning lady for CHF 80 per month? ---
**Author:** ![mabi](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/mabi/32/3568_2.png) [@mabi](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/mabi)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 7:52pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/pants-down-yearly-spending/1249/135 "2021-12-28T19:52:41Z")
> [@Slutmachine](#): > > What does the cleaning lady for CHF 80 per month? 🤣 sorry I couldn’t resist to ROFL ---
**Author:** ![dbu](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/dbu/32/1552_2.png) [@dbu](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/dbu)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2021, 8:17pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/pants-down-yearly-spending/1249/136 "2021-12-28T20:17:28Z")
> [@Slutmachine](#): > > I would be interested to see the breakdown of the monthly CHF 107 as Serafe alone accounts for 28… 24 - Yallo (black, grabbed for BF) 39 - UPC (600/60 with basic TV, some deal I negotiated) 10 - Netflix+Spotify shared accounts 24 - Serafe (285/12) In fact it is 97, not 107chf; miscalculated. > [@mabi](#): > > 🤣 sorry I couldn’t resist to ROFL Same 🤣 @Slutmachine 2h once a month @ hourly rate of 40chf. Took the one my colleague recommended. ---
**Author:** ![anon95353169](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@anon95353169](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/anon95353169)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 7:19am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/pants-down-yearly-spending/1249/137 "2021-12-29T07:19:56Z")
Here is our breakdown for 2021 (2 people for most of the year, and then baby in September): - Insurances: 885 - Transporation: 221 - Internet & Mobile: 86 - Food: 553 - Housing: 833 - Taxes: 3920 - Misc (everything else): 1812 - Total: 8310 Next year, we need to reduce our insurance costs (finally can cancel some complementary insurance) and our misc spending was quite out of hand. Our food spending also increased a lot, but still reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Slutmachine](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Slutmachine](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Slutmachine)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 9:36am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/pants-down-yearly-spending/1249/138 "2021-12-29T09:36:46Z")
Thanks! Tho I believe Serafe was 335 in 2021. If fiber’s available you can get more for the same price with Yallo too. As for the maid that’s exactly the kind of price I had in mind for Zurich, hence why it seemed very low for what I picture is a 2.5-3.5 apt and made me wonder 😇 ---
**Author:** ![dbu](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/user_avatar/forum.mustachianpost.com/dbu/32/1552_2.png) [@dbu](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/dbu)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 10:48am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/pants-down-yearly-spending/1249/139 "2021-12-29T10:48:50Z")
Ah indeed, it might be some partial bill for Serafe then, due to the move. Can’t find the bill now, but would be for some odd time periods then (as I moved during July). 3 room apt it is, yes. ---
**Author:** ![Baltic](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/34f0e0/32.png) [@Baltic](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Baltic)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2021, 11:01am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/pants-down-yearly-spending/1249/140 "2021-12-29T11:01:05Z")
I (30m) am living frugal in Zürich city, 86k salary. Pants down: yearly spending: | 2595 | CHF per month | | --- | --- | | 337 | Groceries | | 799 | WG rent + utilities + internet | | 445 | Public transport, carshare | | 280 | Health insurance | | 311 | Flights | | 236 | Eat and drink outside | | 423 | Misc (luxuries, presents etc.) | [Previous page](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/pants-down-yearly-spending/1249.md?page=5) [Next page](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/pants-down-yearly-spending/1249.md?page=7)