Own GmbH: minimising insurance/pension costs

Thanks again for the replies here. This thread has been very helpful for me and my wife. We’ll contact VZ and Zurich and scrutinise our AXA proposals.

Wow, thanks for the warning here. We did indeed get one of these!

One thing I am still confused about is the mandatory/extra-mandatory BVG terms. Do they refer to employee contribution levels? (e.g. legal minimum is the mandatory part, and additional contributions between this and the BVG maximum are the extra-mandatory part) If so, does the employee elect their levels of contribution? I have not worked here before so this is all new to me.

Possibly related: we have two quotes from AXA for BVG, a cheaper one with a maximum pensionable salary of the BVG maximum (CHF85,320.-) and a more expensive one with a maximum pensionable salary of the UVG maximum (CHF148,200.-?). So, since my wife’s declared salary is 100k does the difference in cost between the two policies reflect the fact that the cheaper one tops out at a maximum pensionable salary of 85k? Is this the mandatory/extra-mandatory stuff at work or am I hopelessly confused?

Yes, for the second pillar you don’t pay contribution for the first c.a. 25’000, then you pay for the mandatory part 25’000-85’000 and then you can voluntarily pay the 85’000-148’000 part. Note, that there is always the employer and employee contribution, with the condition that employer >= employee. And since in your case both are paid by you, it’s best to pay all as employer and nothing as employee, because then you can spare some AHV.

At my company, the policy is to pay the max, all covered by the employer, and it applies to all employees. So I have some 20k per year invested for astounding return of 1% :wink:

Hm, how does this work? I thought that the AHV was paid 50/50 by employer/employee on the first ~25k?

Im talking about the non-mandatory part of bvg

You have to differentiate here. The cheaper one is the covering the mandatory part (Obligatorium) for BVG. Actually, you don’t pay the 85’320.-, but instead you insure 60’435.- (max. BVG of 85’320.- minus Koordinationsabzug). AXA seems to do that wrong often times (had the same problem with my AXA quote and asked for a correction).

You can decide if you want to only pay the obligatory part (BVG Obligatorium) of your wife’s 100k salary, or if you also want to pay the uberoligatory part. The difference in between those two is that the obligatory minimum interest is guaranteed (Swiss government is adjusting this rate each rate, e.g. for 2019 it’s 1%) and the uber-obligatory part is not guaranteed. Worst case is that the BVG provider only pays back what you paid in.

I decided to only insure the obligatory part for now. In the end you have to know if the tax reductions with pillar 2 (but with low interest) are better than investing money in pillar 3b (no tax reductions, but more flexilibility; most probably higher interest, but also higher risk).

You can go up to 70% employer / 30% employee for the obligatory part. For the uber-obligatory, I don’t know. I think the 100% employer is only working for 1e (Kadervorsorge), which is higher than 148k a year. That’s just a guess though.

Thanks for the clarification. Glad my suspicions that this was the mandatory/extra-mandatory stuff. Re: incorrect quote: one of the quotes mentions the coordination deduction is subtracted from the maximum pensionable salary and the other does not. We’ll chase them up on this.

For us I think it makes more sense to go for the minimum. We have other income and investments so can afford to risk investing the money elsewhere instead of getting a tax-advantaged very low rate of interest.