New immigration law and FI/RE


#12

So you say you’re unwilling to contribute, but want the benefits?

(You can still do Zivilschutz to save yourself the 3% tax JFYI.)


#13

My GmbH idea was a joke :wink:

Of course it is too much administrative work to do that. However it can be beneficial under some circumstances, for example if you are taxed on capital gains.


#14

I think it’s legitimate to avoid it. Otherwise they would need to tax everyone until the retirement age to close that loophole.
Remember that most people also had military service in their home country so they would pay twice.


#15

What do you mean by “unwilling to contribute”? Are you refering to military service? I just don’t think I would be good for any military training. Especially that I would be eligible for citizenship at the age of 40. I don’t see myself playing soldier at that age…


#16

After 40 you are done with military service, do you plan to become FI before that ? If not, you can apply for citizenship and it should cost you less than your Gmbh idea. For my whole family of 4 I paid +/- 1.5 k (don’t know if there are differences according to your origin country, EU thing etc). Consider also that the process lasts 1.5 to 2 years, so you can apply earlier than 40…:wink:

Moreover, some countries (DE, FR, USA, Colombia, Argentina, Austria and Italy) have an agreement with CH so if you’ve already done military service there you don’t have to pay.


#17

For me the document mentioned in the first message is nothing surprising. Switzerland has a long tradition of an open country built by people who are motivated to bring this country forward. The policy of granting immigration as long as you have a job led to a very stable country and a prosperous economy even with (or thank to) one of the highest percentage of foreigners among the European countries. There are several industrial sectors (Bank, watchmaking, food, chemistry) that have been built by people who emigrated in Switzerland.
Today we bump in people who think that social benefits are a solution and integration through the language, the equality between men and women and the respect of political institutions is a burden. The information from ZH is targeted to this kind of people.


#18

This is the Abu Ramadan law… https://www.bernerzeitung.ch/region/kanton-bern/gegen-abu-ramadan-ermittelt-jetzt-die-staatsanwaltschaft/story/10850835


#19

600k over 13 years. How can such thing be possible…


#20

This is possible because I pay too much tax and the money is badly used.


#21

That’s only 46k per year, or 4k per month. That would have to cover:

2x health insurance and costs - let’s say CHF 700.
Rent, could easily be CHF 1500 or more depending on location.
Further money for life costs, including food, clothing, transport: tends to be set around 1k per per person per month.

There’s not much luxury in there.


#22

I guess you missed my point. Why did the guy get this money? Did he really deserve it or found a way to abuse the system? I didn’t read into his story.


#23

I was under the impression that you had to do military service before you were 25; so if you applied for Swiss Nationality when older than 25 you would have no obligations to do it/pay the tax. Is this not correct?


#24

I think you have to pay until you are 37 or for a maximum 11 years, if you cannot do the service. But being older than 25 does not exempt you from the tax, it simply makes you unfit for service and forces you to pay.


#25

Would be great to have some confirmation around this, I might try follow up with the head of naturalisation in my commune.

3% for 11 years would add up to a sizeable sum… or trade-off of taking 1 year out of a career. Neither is too appealing!


#26

Depending on which country you are from there might be exemption treaties. For example you don’t pay anything if you are French.


#27

I could not find anything about the country dependent exemptions at least not in written form.

But unless you are from one of these countries you definitely have to pay and they won’t tell you beforehand! My colleague simply got the bill after he was finished with naturalization


#28

You can be exempted if you are from a country listed here: dual citizenship and Swiss army. With the neighboring countries, you can choose to do the service (or equivalent) there until you are 19. If you are older, the exemption only applies if you already accomplished service (or equivalent) in that country. What is considered equivalent is not the same for every country so you have to check if it applies for you.


#29

Not entirely true. If you’re too old for military service, but of duty age, you can choose to do Zivilschutz. Most people choose to pay instead of doing Zivilschutz.


#30

Die Teilnahme am Wirtschaftsleben oder am Erwerb von Bildung

Just enroll in some Hochschule that interests you. That was my backup plan anyway, in case life gets too boring without work. :sweat_smile:


#31

There is 0 point in worrying about this and continuing this discussion actually. They will only act on your status if you collect benefits from ALV, IV or social security.

And even if they cared they would have to kick out a lot of people before they came for retirees.