It’s good enough for me.
I am currently in the middle of my benchmark (BCV, UBS, Raiffeisen, Viac, AXA, Vaudoise …) and I will apply a +0.4% penalty on all the insurances rate (i.e : 1.1% becomes 1.5%) to compensate the fact that their indirect amortization can only go through their terrible 3rd pillar.
Every other bank forcing me into their 3rd pillar that are not a scam, but still a bad TER => +0.1% penalty.
I will let you know once I have all the offers 
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Hi Max
Do you already have an update? I would be curious about the results.
Thanks in advance!
UBS Key4 has a TER of 0,75% which is not great but acceptable for Indirect Amortization - but only if you invest the money saved as a result of it every year
Lowest I’ve seen is 0.46% TER for a passive ETF strategy at a bank for 3a.
Edit: But I’ve just seen that the issue premium is 2% so…
Hey guys,
From my bank, I’m getting a 0.71% mortgage (for 80% of the value) all “fees” included with a 6 month automatic renewal and possible amortizations every 6 months (just before the renewal). Other banks are offering 0.8% or above.
This seems reasonable from what I’ve been reading here, what do you guys think?
I think I’ve been careful, but it’s never bad to ask: what are some “pitfalls” I should be weary off before signing anything?
Thanks for your time!
You mean 0.71% margin on top of SARON, right?
Or you got a fixed X years for that rate? (Doubt)
Fixed 6 months for 0.71%.
By your response, I assume I should be taking the deal.
Is that then “1.42% annualized”, or?
I am not at all an expert here, just confused by the period specification.
I’d guess 0.71% margin with a 6-month notice period to (partly) amortize or replace.
Based on recent posts, it seems to be a decent deal these days, as many lender increased their margins.
Based on the above.
It’s a SARON mortgage with 0.71% margin as I don’t know of any fixed mortgage with automatic renewal (unless you instruct your mortgage advisor to do exactly that).
The margin is good for SARON. Best rated objects, LTV and customers get around 0.6% and lower than that is only possible with being a bank employee or 10M+ in assets at the same institution.
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General FYI: just go to this site (ZKB - CHF Swap Rates) and check the swap rates/SARON and deduct your offered rate for the corresponding time frame with the data displayed there and you know your margin.
Just curious - if the SNB were to increase interest rates by 25 basis points in December, then would you still pay 0.71%? Or would it be 0.96% instead?
First time I’ve encountered a fixed rate under 1-year term if it’s the former. And yes I agree, very decent rate.
It’s 0.71% per year.
It renews based on the SARON rate every 6 months, so it kind of depends on the outlook you have. For now it seems like SNB will keep things as they are for the forseeable future, but it’s obviously a risk.
Yes, that’s exactly what would happen. It’s risky, I can’t deny that.
For now SNB seems to want to keep these low rates, so it’s a way to capitalise on this and hopefully I can still get a decent rate if rate hikes are announced.
Today I got an incredible deal from one of the biggest swiss bank.
House value: CHF 1.24M (no renovations)
Cash + 2nd Pillar: CHF 67’000.00 (5.4%)
Mortgage: CHF 1,173,000 (94.6%)
Pledge of 3a: CHF 124,000 (in their pension fund) (10%)
Offered Interest rates: SARON Margin: 0.7% or 5-year fixed: 0.85%
Amortization: Indirect into Pledged pension funds
Other constraints: I should also prove my other bankable assets are greater than CHF 290,000 and they can change max-affordability to 40% and max mortage-to-asset ratio to 95%
For me, it seems to be too good to be true. Any thoughts. How I should shape my mortgage tranches.
PS: I am capable of doing a 20% payment, but I would like to bring low down payment as much as possible to increase the ROI. As this would be my first (and probably only credit), I would like to take it as much as possible. As I have 10+ years of investment experience, I am ok with volatility and I believe I can do better than (SARON + 0.7%) over the long run.
We still haven’t finalized the mortgage, would you recommend to negotiate something else?
Not necessarily negociating but taking into account in the total costs:
If uninvested (cash) and your desire was to have it uninvested anyway, then that’s fine. If invested, it’s probably more expensive than what you could have found elsewhere and the difference in fees should be factored into the total costs of the mortgage.
If cash and desired to have it in cash, then only 100k of that is insured by esisuisse (though, depending on the bank, it may have a state guarantee). Probably not a big problem as the bank is probably too big to fail and I’d guess the assets and liabilities would be balanced out in case of bankruptcy but still an additional risk.
If invested in securities, that’s also probably more expensive than what can be found elsewhere and those costs should be factored in too.
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It took a bit more time than thank expected, but here are the answers I got so far for 5 years fixed rate, and the final rate with my penalty system :
- UBS : 1.2% ; +0.1 added penatly for bad TER in 3rd pillar = 1.3% (However, they could only lend me 72%, not 80%)
- Viac : 1.3% and no penalty, as the TER is great = 1.3% (However, they also only lend 72%, I guess they use the same valuation method than UBS)
- BCV : 1.3% +0.1% penalty for bad TER = 1.4% (They could lend the 80% as required)
- Raiffeisen : 1.33% +0.1% penalty for bad TER = 1.43% (They could lend the 80% as required)
- Axa : 1.3% +0.3% penalty for their insurance 3rd pillar that is basically a scam = 1.6% (They don’t lend anymore until Jan 2026 from what the guy told me)
Now, to choose between Reiffeisen and BCV : I would go toward Raiffeisen, who has a passive managed 3rd pillar (0.75% TER) with 100% stock, which is better than BCV actively managed (1.3% TER) with only 70% stock.
I did not ask about 2nd and 3rd pillar “nantissement” yet. If one of them accept, it could change my decision.
My 2nd pillar is 130KCHF with an average performance of 3.5%, so I’d be happy to keep it working.
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Thanks for sharing. Yes Raiffeisen seems to be the best option for 5Y
Did you try Swiss quote/LUKB? CA-next Bank?
CIC has also a 100% equities with 0,75% if I remember correctly
I’m currently in discussions with several institutions regarding the renewal of my mortgage.
I’ve noticed that the rates offered are very similar across banks. In the past, negotiations tended to be more flexible and responses came more quickly.
Perhaps the end of the year is simply a less favorable time for such discussions?