Max number of 3A accounts in Geneva

Interesting article here :

Ainsi, dans le canton de Vaud, on tolère la création de deux comptes de 3e pilier au maximum. «Au-delà, nous examinons la question de l’évasion fiscale, indique Pierre Curchod, responsable de la division juridique au Département des finances auquel est rattachée l’Administration cantonale des impôts. En effet, nous pouvons supposer que la création de multiples comptes, en soi plus compliquée que le recours à un compte unique, n’a en règle générale pas d’autre objectif que d’obtenir des allégements fiscaux.»

Thanks, but for now I would continue to advise to open 5 account and merge them if the time come.
The law can change or you can move to an other canton in the future. (Most people are quite young on this forum :slight_smile: )

Yep sure ! Any treshold you apply in order to choose to open the next account ?

Open a new one each year from now on and fill them up in a round robin fashion (or pay into the one with the lowest amount).
Or pay 1/5th into each as some others do, but then you need 5 paper attachments for the taxes.
I don’t bother with that.

I have 3 with VIAC thus far, but will probably try out finpension for 2021.
When I reach 5, I continue paying into the one with the lowest amount that year.

Hey!
I’ve read it and also find it interesting, but it’s from 2011 and I wondered if it was still the case these days.

But I couldn’t find any concrete updated proof of this…

Here is two of my post about the limitation in the Canton of Vaud. To sum up :

  • You can have 5 accounts.
  • Currently we don’t know if withdrawing said accounts over 5 years can be considered as “tax evasion” because you have to declare it in your tax declaration. So you’re just trying to optimize your situation which is not legaly forbidden.
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Thanks, isn’t it their job to confirm if what you described is legal?

It is likely not strictly defined by law - and as such open to interpretation. Which may change a bit over time. And also depend on the individual circumstances of the case. Understandably, no one is going to stick his neck out and explicitly confirm that something is legal or not.

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So best is to open 5 accounts and ask when retirement is here…

Anyway what happens worst case? I’d be surprised if there’s any penalty, you might just pay the higher marginal tax rate.

I’ve written to the administration in Neuchatel, if they really considering having more than 2 account a tax evasion, and they say that it’s no more the case.

here the mail:

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Interesting how their answer is crystal clear instead of the answer from the Canton of Vaud. As I thought, there is no reason to consider multiple 3a account and multiple withdrawal as a tax evasion in Switzerland as the loss for the Canton is peanut…

Im a financial advisor and there is actually no limit on the number of 3A you can open… But the point here is does it worth it… Normally i suggest having 2 and max 3 3A

Didn’t someone do the math and assumed full 3a payment every year invested 100% into stocks and came to the conclusion that 5 accounts was the optimum for compounding interest and tax? I can’t remember it clearly though and am not sure if it was on this forum.

It will always depends on the fees of maintaining several accounts… But you can take out your investments starting 5 years before retirement and having 5 accounts allow you to ta take out 1 every year. This doesnt work will 3a with insurance coverage since the fees per account are usually higher and splitting in more than 3 accounts can be less interesting

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5 accounts will optimise your exit tax when cashing them out close to retirement.
You could read this thread

or the blog article of Mustachian Post on the subject.

I hope that you don’t advise these to your clients. :slight_smile:

In a “standard” 3a account, the fees are charged by percentage - so it doesn’t make a difference AFAIK.

I guess you should start advising your Clients opening 3a with VIAC/Finpension/etc. I can even provide them referral codes for VIAC :rofl:

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That’s exactly what i advise to my client… and with facts. My last client wanted to split the 573 chf in 2 separated contracts. with swisslife. Indeed at the age 65 the projected outcome of one contract with the monthly payement of 573 chf was greater that projected combined outcome of the 2 splited contracts 300+273 chf.
But we decided. to go for the splited contracts because of the tax advantage at retirement.

So yes Dbu… I advised to my clients to go for the splitted contracts even if by splitting it there were some hidden additional fees

How can you advise a product with hidden fees ? Just wondering.

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