That probably refers to this:
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Referring to WHT on 2nd pillar withdrawal when leaving CH. I understand you first pay the WHT in CH at a rate depending on the canton where your 2nd pillar fund is domiciled. If the DTA with the destination country says such withdrawal is taxable in the destination country you can claim back the WHT from CH. To do this I understand you need to demonstrate that you have declared the withdrawal in the destination country.
When I made the statement above but I was assuming the tax in the destination country is almost always going to be higher than the super low Swiss WHT. Perhaps I am over simplifying and there are some countries with lower rates? In addition I realised am not sure if it is a requirement to demonstrate that you declared the withdrawal in destination country or just to prove you are resident
There was some discussion in this thread
Usually pension lump sum have a favorable treatment (iirc for France itâs like 8%), and some countries also may not tax foreign income. So itâs not a given that the Swiss WHT is higher 
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You are right it is not a given. I stopped looking further as I have a family and am limited in the countries I could realistically move to
The WHT rate In CH is lower, than 8%, especially if the pension fund is in Schwyz
If you move to UK the DTA says the withdrawal is only taxable in CH so no tax to pay in UK. But in this case the DTA means you canât reclaim Swiss WHT
Swissinfo.ch had an overview on countries with DTA, and if tax on 2nd & 3rd pillar can be claimed back. If their information is correct (I have personally no idea), in Canada you cannot, in US you can, in Mexico you can claim it back on 2nd pillar but not from 3rd pillar.
If it is covered by a DTA, it essentially allows transfer of money to the destination and pay tax there without having to pay tax in the origin country as well, respectively the ability of claiming tax back from the origin country once proof is given that the destination country is aware of the moneyâs arrival. If then more or less tax is paid in the destination country is a different matter altogether and not a concern of the origin country anymore.
The question now would therefore be which countries have a DTA with Switzerland, if the DTA covers 2nd and/or 3rd pillar, and if that country then has a lower tax on it. There is talk in some expat forums that 2nd pillar tax was successfully claimed back after emigrating to Thailand, and no tax had to be paid according to the Thai tax code. The CH-Thailand DTA does not cover 3a however. Here is a link to a Swiss lawyer based in Thailand that could advise on this.
I personally do not plan on this, because a) who knows if this is still possible by the time I get to FIRE, b) financial planning that actually needs this to work would be imprudent and c) it is a lot of hassle with my family situation to just get around some tax money. At best it would be a welcome windfall if it / something like it would work out, but Iâm not planning for it. If you are single and close to FIRE however, this might well finance 1-2 years of living expenses in Thailand if that is your thing and you have significant 2nd pillar capital.
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There is an official list of DTAs and discussion in the thread in link above
In general you will have to pay tax on 2 & 3 pillar withdrawal in either CH or the destination country. Usually it is « bad news » if the DTA with your destination country says that the Swiss WHT can be reclaimed because it implies the payout is taxable in the destination country. The rate will almost always be higher than the Swiss WHT and in some cases higher than the tax you saved when initially paying in. This is rarely made clear when salespeople tell you that you can withdraw 2&3 pillar if you leave the country
Sounds like Thailand may be an exception
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btw are you sure AHV will look at same wealth/income value as tax office? (Itâs not necessarily a given)
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Actually, Iâm surprised at how low these contributions are. Assuming a 1 Mio. VT portfolio with an annual dividend income of 2% (20k), youâd only pay an annual 3k for AHV/IV/EO (250/month). Not that bad, is it? Or am I missing something here?
Of course, this is assuming true RE, not âretirementâ with 10 side hustles generating considerable income.
Wealth tax is an additional 2k/year
And do the wealth tax calculation in BL, VD or GE if you want even more pain 
Not for me. For AHV purposes, my house is calculated at 385% of tax value.
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AHV is not too bad: it is anyway capped, so the max you will pay each year is 26k.
If you paid a lot of AHV in early years, it is good value as you can try to pay as little AHV as possible and build up AHV contribution years for âcheapâ.
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In Geneva you pay just shy of 100K at 10 million.
The differences between lowest and highest is crazy. Factor of 10
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Is that really the case?
This would make firing quite a bit easier for me. As I count on 0 AHV when calculating FIRE. It reduces expenses by 10% essentially.
Iâm pretty sure Iâll get more longterm return from my own investments.
Guess Iâll not pay for AHV when retiring.
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A post was merged into an existing topic: Direct Residential Real Estate Funds in Switzerland
This is incorrect. AHV is mandatory. The only way you get out of it is if you are married and your spouse earns enough to cover you.
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Open a limited company. Put in something that has similar or better tax treatment than holding it personally. Pay yourself a super small salary for managing it. Pay few AHV, get all contribution years.
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No, I have no need yet. Of course, this is in essence a circumvention. But there probably is enough justification and not enough proof.
Do you see any other problems?
That still seems better to have it invested yourself and let it compound, as I imagine the interest is not high?
Just not tell them until they notice, but plan ahead and set aside (or more plan ahead with your portfolio construction) enough for the late paymentâŠ
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Get a lawyer, pay their rate, get advice satisfying your quality requirements.
If not, youâll take leads from us peasants and then do your own due diligence. Maybe finding information involves you doing something. Go ask AHV directly if you can fulfill your obligation by paying on a small salary in your semi-retirement. Get back with their answer and contribute something. That sound good?
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