I’d be curious where in the world you think this is assertion is valid?
I loved this reading on the subject (there is also a nice ted talk from the author)
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Nice topic.
I became a dad a bit earlier than I had bargained for (at 30, while still a PhD student) and we have since added a 2nd one to the mix. Becoming a parent is a hugely life-changing event. I love my kids, but they are a ton of work. And we’ve definitely taken a big hit financially and socially. Add to this being expats and living 1000s of km from our nearest family members (whose help you will learn to appreciate greatly, and maybe be a bit annoyed by, once you have a kid) and it has been quite tough at times.
Kids slowly get more and more awesome. Under 6 months, they are basically a milk-to-shit converter and are frankly not that interesting 
. Once they start walking, talking, getting dressed by themselves, shitting in a toilet, etc. things change for the better. I’m sure that once they get to 10-12 and you can leave them home alone for a bit, another constraint gets lifted (although then they become teenagers, which should be a lot of fun…).
I know a guy 20 years older than me who has kids the same age as mine. While he has a nice flat, good salary, and great job stability, I can see that he and his wife are totally overwhelmed by it. The younger you are, the better equipped you are to improvise, adapt, and succeed…on very little sleep.
I had never thought about when I would actually want to have kids - all I knew was that it was sometime in the future. Now, I am quite happy with it. Being 70 when my kids start uni? Fuck that, I’ll be 50, and in great fucking shape too.
But, of course, everyone’s situation is different and we cannot plan everything (and shouldn’t try to!). Women’s fertility (and men’s to a lesser extent) starts to fall during their 30s, which means that often you can’t just decide, ok, next month is the month whenever you think the stars have aligned for baby-making.
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@Cortana you should read about homeschooling. I think you might solve a lot of problems with it. At least if the “freedom” you are talking about is mostly about traveling and living everywhere.
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Sure, we do change, each one in their own individual way. That’s why, since the social pressure has eased a little in the last century, we have seen such a surge in divorces. And it surely sucks for a kid to grow up after the parents have divorced. My parents used to argue a lot, there was cursing and screaming, but somehow they pulled through. It may be very selfish, but I’m happy they never divorced, it would have been even more nerve wrecking to me as a kid than their occasional bursts of emotions.
But surely, as a potential parent, I would like to commit to it with a relative confidence, that I can pull through in this setup for another 20 years. And this I don’t feel right now. I am also in this relationship since over 4 years, and I feel more confident now. I have only been in a relationship once before, as a teenager and then for many years there was nothing. So to me, this relationship has been the first try as an adult. Yet I would be very afraid of the stress that could arise from a potential break-up. It’s maybe irresponsible and escapist, but I’m just content with how things are.
It would be also better for the environment to kill thyself. Of course, I’m not advocating for that, I just try to bring such arguments to an absurd situation. It’s important to understand that the universe doesn’t care about us, or the cute animals and plants that die because of our activity. One could argue, that humans are the form of being which has the most capability of sensing and understanding the universe. It’s all in our head to feel sad because forest are cut down and the seas are polluted. Glorifying nature is a human construct. Literally nobody, except from ourselves, cares or has the capacity to understand it.
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@Bojack
We are the universe experiencing itself. Every part of our body, every part of our mind and every part of our planet was created in the same place. Once we were all connected. But this is drifting away from the topic 
I want to be more than an animal with only one purpose in life (preventing the extinction of my own species by reproducing). There must be much more to life than that.
Yes, but look at how far we have come to understanding the universe in even the last century. Quantum theory, particle accelerators, etc. The stuff gets more and more complex to grasp. And we will probably not be able to figure it all out in our lifetime, but if we don’t have children and go extinct, then we cross out the chance of even getting there. Of course, we have to watch out not to completely screw up our planet on the way there. That’s why I believe in ecology, just not how it is portrayed by the activists.
The problem with overcrowding the Earth is probably gonna solve itself soon. It’s a typical S curve. There was an exponential growth, but now it’s fading and it’s much more possible that we could see the trend reverse in the coming decades. Anyway, I think we should really not pursue this issue within this topic. Let’s leave “not having kids for the sake of ecology” for another thread.
OK, I can’t resist myself to add one more thing. For some people, the goto thing is religion. To me, religion is bullshit. Or maybe, what contemporary religions have to offer is infantile pile of crap. In order to get excited about the future and life, I look to science and technology. I like to track the newest developments and ponder upon some theoretical explanations about the nature of the universe. I am definitely interested to know why and how are we here, I just find the answer given by religions totally disappointing.
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We are the same in that regard. Call me crazy, but when they published the 1st picture of a black hole I was overwhelmed. I was filled with more joy than seeing the 1st kid of my brother lol. I think this is the real purpose of our species. Understanding everything about ourselves and the universe we live in. Of course we need kids for that but there are enough humans already. We don’t need 10 billion, 1 billion would be ideal.
I wonder how 40+ people without kids are viewed from general society? Did we stop to look at such individuals as failed existences?
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I will refer to your “robbing several kinds of freedom” and how it feels for me.
We have a toddler and I’m in my 40ies, so an “old” father. I would certainly have had strong FOMO earlier in my life with this thing that you have to be around 24/7 for the next 12 years and then kind of blocked in one place for 10 years more.
In my 20ies, 30ies… I partyied a lot, travelled a lot (privately & for work), had ideas to move to a tropical place to live later (better weather, more crazy society), but it all isn’t the same any more when older (with or without kid). I value other things more now, and the older one gets more and more.
And these exact things that I value more, staying at home more and a stable system outside of the home, warm but not crazy-hot weather, I feel are the ones that kind of go hand-in-hand with having a child.
And I enjoy the child a lot, it is a great “hobby” 
so I don’t think I’ll get bored for a while.
Downside is I will be an “old Dad” at all those school-meetings, which feels a bit negative. And the chances that I live to see my grandchildren… lower than younger Dads.
Otherwise I don’t see much negatives.
So, take it easy, in 10 years will be soon enough, and maybe this freedom then will not be as important to you any more going forward into your 40ies.
Men are (mostly) lucky in that sense (fertility-wise).
Most women don’t have a problem dating men 10 years older, so that shouldn’t be an issue. Sorry, I know your separation with your present gf (who is probably your age) has not happened and I’m not suggesting anything, I’m just saying how it worked out for me.
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Honestly, that’s how I’ve been viewing the matter. I think, even in my 40s/50s I can still become a father, and then I am probably already FIREd and I will anyway need to find something to do. Of course, there is the matter of my gf, who I care for a lot, and I don’t want to cause any stress for her. But more and more, I feel about her like a family member than a romantic partner. Ugh, it is really hard to think about…
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you will not believe but I wanted to share the same chart 
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so what? I do not really care about my own gene pool at all, that is selfish thinking again.
Be remembered for making peoples lifes better, not by passing on your genes.
Post written by physician.
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Try this algorithm:
while (!isFIRE(*this)){
sleep(1000);
}
HaveKids(rand()%5+1);
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The World won’t notice if you decide not to have a kid. It won’t make a sizeable difference. What might make a difference is raising children and passing on your wisdom onto them. Let them become scientists, let them fight for climate long after you’ve passed away. Someone needs to have kids in order for our species to survive, so do you think it’s better if the children that inherit this World are the ones of the people who didn’t think like you?
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This is really an issue. Intelligent people usually have less or no kids at all. The best part of our society isn’t really reproducing. Maybe that’s why humanity seems to be more stupid than a couple of decades ago. I mean look at the USA. 50 years ago it was the nation that sent people to the moon. Everybody embraced the technological advances. Now nearly half of their population think that the Earth is 7000 years old. There are even millions of people that believe the earth is flat, lol.
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Don’t believe that. The biggest difference is that now you know more americans…or better said, there are more people sharing their own views and it’s easier to see how many stupid people exists. I don’t believe that is the best metric to see how stupid are becoming.
You might instead see where the best mind are working or what is considered valuable. For example the biggest company in the world right now aren’t really moving forward the mankind, if not by mistake. Some were doing it, some never did it. This is still not the best metric because we need to define what “best part of our society” means and what’s the goal.
Anyway a bit out of topic, sorry.
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To return to the initial topic: are there any members here that don’t plan on having kids? If so, what are the reasons?
I did not plan to have children, but my husband really wanted one and as the circumstances were right and I was not completely opposed I got pregnant and have now a 1.5 year old toddler. Interestingly I enjoy her much more now than my husband, but it took some months as I suffered very strongly from PPD and she was a baby that screamed a lot (record was 10 hours without interruption).
But now each day she gets more fun as she has learnt to walk and is now learning to talk. Even though everyone always told me that it doesn’t get better only different, I cannot agree with this. It definitively got a lot better and I assume it will still get better.
Financially she doesn’t cost too much as we have cheap daycare here and the other items are negligible. Emotionally she has cost me my sanity for a long long time.
But I don’t think that you have to have children. If you don’t want to that is completely fine and you still have lots of time.
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That’s something that drives me crazy. Sitting in a plane in front of a screaming baby for 2 hours ruins my whole day. How can you endure something like that everday for 4+ hours for months?
You can’t. It took me almost a year to recover from it. But it seems like there are babies that do not scream that much. I have at least seen lots of babies in the supermarket while she was younger and screaming while we tried to grocery shop who just laid in their car seats. I was (and am still) very jealous. I have not left the house for months if it was not absolutely necessary (good training for now I suppose).
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