„Leistungen aus der Säule 3a werden grundsätzlich wie eine Kapitalabfindung aus dem Überobligatorium behandelt“
Rückkehr nach Deutschland – Besteuerung von Renten aus Schweizer Vorsorge
But if you withdraw these funds as (long as you are) a Swiss resident, not tax-resident in Germany, and pay Swiss taxes on it (not talking about refundable withholding tax!) why would you need to pay taxes on it in Germany? That would be double taxation.
Maybe you’re right. But some countries (e.g. Spain) consider a full year as the taxable period, so if you live +180 days/year in a country, your full income in that year (globally) is considered for taxation, regardless of where you earned it (with possible deductions of taxes already paid somewhere else). Maybe not the case for Germany if that 3rd pillar cash out comes when I’m still tax resident in Switz though.
Do you mind sharing which bank that is?
There was a separate thread about VIAC not doing this. It could be interesting for others especially if that bank also has a vested benefit solution for 2 pillar
It’s PostFinance. Based on emails with VIAC they told me they would only give me the 3rd pillar with proof of residence in Germany. PF will give it to you up to 1 month before leaving Switzerland just with the deregistration paper of the Gemeinde. See below:
Indeed that is different vs. VIAC or Finpension. Is that form published online - if so would you mind sharing the link so I can look for myself what would be their approach for vested 2 benefits? I couldn’t find it myself
In case it helps here is the official double tax agreement between CH and DE. Article 18. Select Fr/De/It in the top right
It’s a link only working when you are logged in in PF, I can’t upload the PDF here but can send it if you wish. It’s only relevant for 3rd pillar (pdf title is “Application for payout from retirement savings account 3a”)
Thanks. Indeed I can’t access it as I don’t have an account.
Would be cool if anyone on the forum with an account at Postfinance could see if there is a anything about “Application for payout from 2P / Vested Benefit” and if they give the option of payout up to one month before leaving CH, same as they do for 3P
You could likely transfer it and let it sit there (less relevant what performance it could have) for a few months before you cash out.
here ya go, comes up without being logged in.
https://www.postfinance.ch/de/privat/beduerfnisse/anlagewissen/ins-ausland-nicht-ohne-vorsorge.html
“Endgültiges Verlassen der Schweiz (Auszahlung frühestens ein Monat vor Verlassen der Schweiz möglich)”
Edit: sorry, I mis-read that the question which was for 2P vested, not 3a.
Thanks for the help @rolandinho, @dbu
What I am hoping to find out is whether PostFinance would allow payout from its Vested Benefits plan (2 Pillar) up to 1 month before leaving CH.
The website link from @rolandinho seems to confirm what @jorgel shared: that this is possible for 3 pillar, which is great news - thanks! However it does not confirm for vested benefits, unless I missed something.
The background is in this thread. In summary if you move to certain countries e.g. Spain and withdraw a large 2 or 3P pot after the move you likely have to pay tax there (Spain >45% depending on the amount)
As I mentioned in another thread, the decision to buy-in and/or contribute more to the 2nd pillar (or 3rd) is heavily dependent on your assumptions about the future, which is to say that it is (at least in part) very specific to every individual.
In essence though, as @Burningstone mentioned earlier, it boils down to the comparison between:
how much that money is expected to return outside the fund, and;
how much that same money is expected to return in the pre-tax vehicle (i.e. 2nd/3rd pillar) plus the expected returns on the tax rebate/refund it generated.
There are many other factors to take into account (as already mentioned in this thread), such as current marginal tax rate, investment horizon, lump sum tax rate and/or domicile at the time of withdrawal, etc. I have just recently posted a small tool in another thread that can help you think about all these different factors (and allow you to plug in your own assumptions):
As you will see, the “investment horizon” is one of the most important variables. Indeed, when you make a buy-in or contribution into the 2nd or 3rd pillar, the tax rebate/refund is practically guaranteed, giving you an immediate boost on the return. As years go by though, this early head start will erode in comparison to the higher returns you could make outside the fund.
I mention this last point because this is what got my interested in this topic in the first place. Indeed, as a foreigner myself initially (now Swiss as well), I had “definitely” left Switzerland a few times already, cashing my 2nd pillar in full (note: it would be only the over-mandatory part for European citizens). In such cases it’s possible to have your 2nd pillar transit through Schwytz for instance for a better lump sum tax rate. Therefore, if for some reasons you think you might only stay for a few years in Switzerland, the “investment horizon” is relatively small, and the 2nd/3rd pillar contributions might look like a better financial transaction. Unfortunately, as @Barto just mentioned, it also depends on where you are going back to (with regards to the local tax treatment of that lump sum), and that opens up a whole 'nother can of worms! 
…residents.
Depending on your insurance status in that new country of residence, you may be still be eligible to cash out in full (e.g. in Portugal).
You’re absolutely right, I misspoke. Thanks for pointing that out.
If you move from Switzerland to a country outside the EU/EEA, you can withdraw not only your 3a capital but also the 2nd pillar. When you leave Switzerland, you fill a form with your future address in a country of your choosing. The Swiss government does not require a proof-of-address for this and will not ever send physical mail there.
In order to get the payout, it is best to move your pension capital to an endowment called “Freizügigkeitsstiftung” in canton Schwyz. While these smaller endowments requires a residence confirmation from your new country, they are a little more relaxed. You can say that it is difficult to obtain this confirmation, and instead give them another “document” such as an apartment rental contract or an unfinished residence application. As long as they have no serious doubts, they will pay out the pension capital.
Just to be clear, this is capital that you earned with your hard work. It belongs to nobody but you, and you have the right to move it wherever you want. If you have to jump through a hoop to regain control of your rightful property, then jump!
You pay a withdrawal tax in Switzerland. The tax rate depends on the domicile canton of the pension fund. In some countries, you can declare your Swiss capital withdrawal, have it taxed there, then claim a refund of the withdrawal tax that you paid in Switzerland.
If you are not employed by a Swiss employer, you can move your pension capital freely between different pension endowments. Some of these endowments are domiciled in the canton of Schwyz, where you have the lowest withdrawal tax rates. However, the funds also charge you administrative fees that you need to check first.
If you merely want to move your assets to a Stiftung to have them paid out immediately afterwards, you are not an interesting customer for them, and they may refuse you. But you have no obligation to tell them about your plans. You can decide later whether your want to leave the capital with them. With the possibility of charging you fees for many years, they will likely accept you.
Do Liberty confirm they pay out before you leave Switzerland so long as you provide all the documents, or only after?
It seems many foundations only pay out after.
Actually, sorry, I was wrong about something. I learned that the timing issue is only relevant if you either reach the official retirement age, if you invest in real estate or if you start a business. In these cases, you can withdraw pension capital while in Switzerland. You could go for this withdrawal and then emigrate afterwards. In those cases, you would compare the applicable taxes of the two options. I guess most of us can only withdraw the capital after emigration.
On another note, it may make sense not to cash out your Swiss 2nd pillar prematurely, even if you could.
You could also invest and leave them on a vested benefits securities account in Switzerland, such as valuepension or VIAC (both not to be confused with 3rd pillar account products, even if they may effectively be run by the same people).
It will be more costly than managing them yourself as part your liquid assets, e.g. your IBKR account. But you may likely enjoy tax-free appreciation and compounding*. That is, not have to pay taxes on interest, distributions, wealth or capital gains (in cases of portfolio shifts).
Depending on the tax treatment and rates of Swiss 2nd pillar accounts in your case and country, that may be worth paying the higher fees for such products in Switzerland
* I would assume so at least for EU/EFTA countries, that harmonisation of social security and taxation will not have the account taxed before cashing out. Beware of other countries though, if you intend to keep things legal (worst case, they may consider it a taxable account as any other).
Oh, thank you so much @San_Francisco . That thread seems full of good info, will read it.
Can you please explain me why I should not forget about 1st pillar AHV/AVS?
And also, for the 2nd pillar, why would I not try as hard as possible to cash it out? Even if with VIAC you mentioned. After all, I have been living 3yrs in Switzerland, how much should I expect to get once I retire from this? The equivalent of 30 CHF per month? 100 CHF? Does that really justify not trying to find a way to get that money back and use it for something more lucrative?
Or am I missing something?
That money is free to invest as you please, and might grow tax free (and get a reduced tax rate on withdrawal). As mentioned by @San_Francisco it’s possible you won’t get a better deal in the country you’re settling in (0.5% all-in fee, with tax free growth might be better than your local options).
On yet another note, let’s keep in mind that you’re still eligible for early withdrawal of 2nd pillar benefits according to the promotion of home ownership scheme. That is for acquiring - or even renovating - a personally owned residence. Even if your mandatory benefits are ineligible for payout due to emigration because of your social security status.
