# Investing your 2nd pillar
**URL:** https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/investing-your-2nd-pillar/2098
**Category:** Investing / Others
**Created:** [April 24, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/investing-your-2nd-pillar/2098 "2019-04-24T20:30:57Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@demian91](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/demian91)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2019, 8:30pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/investing-your-2nd-pillar/2098/1 "2019-04-24T20:30:57Z")
Hello dear Mustachians,
I recently quit my job and would like to put my 2nd pillar money inside an investment fond.
I discovered this [great website](https://www.compare-invest.ch/de/anlageloesungen-2-saeule/mit-selbstbestimmung/bvg-fund-invest.html) that compares various products on the Swiss Market that are compliant with BVG (pension money) type of investments and there are two products that stood out:
- [Swisscanto (CH) Vorsorge Fonds 45 Passiv VT CHF](https://products.swisscanto.com/products/de/Produkte/BVG-3-Anlagegruppen/Gemischt/CH0133721081) (TER = 0.42% Volume = 507 Mil)
- [Swisscanto BVG 3 Index 45 RT CHF](https://products.swisscanto.com/products/de/Produkte/BVG-3-Anlagegruppen/Gemischt/CH0238046459) (TER = 0.36% Volume = 292 Mil)
- [UBS AST 2 BVG-40 Passive (hedged in CHF) I-A2](http://fundgate.ubs.com/fioverview.do?instid=100007091&rid=4&segment=ubsf.astf&cty=CH&qsearch=CH0280933240&lang=de) (TER = 0.22% Volume = 208 Mil)
My goal is to keep that money sitting somewhere while accumulating value, since I am quite far from my legal pension age and I can’t access this money to invest it by my own.
Any suggestions regarding investing your pension money? What do you think about these three fonds? I would rather go with the first one since it has a bigger volume and more history to evaluate the performance, even if it has a higher TER.
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### Author:  [@male](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/male)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/investing-your-2nd-pillar/2098/2 "2019-04-24T21:19:54Z")
plus 0.4% custody fee per year if you use their [liberty](https://www.liberty.ch/en/3a-retirement-savings/fees/investments/) service
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### Author:  [@male](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/male)
#### Post date: [April 24, 2019, 9:33pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/investing-your-2nd-pillar/2098/3 "2019-04-24T21:33:24Z")
regarding swisscanto VT vs RT: afaik it’s like this:
- VT are the old funds that have retrocession built in, ie higher TER
- RT are the newish funds that are without retrocession, ie lower TER
(retrocession being money paid by the fund provider to the broker, behind the scenes)
No idea what Liberty’s contracts with Swisscanto are, but it sounds like RT is the better deal than the VT one
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### Author:  [@nugget](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/nugget)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2019, 4:32am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/investing-your-2nd-pillar/2098/4 "2019-04-25T04:32:09Z")
I am also looking for a place for pillar2 money. Currently it rots on a 0.3% savings account. I hope to put it to viac’s pillar2 product, once it launches (postponed several times already).
what i really dont like with all the BVG funds is their high TERs, they a fund of funds (more TER within the holdings) and often they have a purchase & sale fee. On top there is a custody fee of the bank account. MP had a [blogpost](https://www.mustachianpost.com/best-3rd-pillar-in-switzerland/) about this. you end up with above 1% TER even though they state 0.5% or so. That’s why i hesitate to put my funds there for a year or so.
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### Author:  [@demian91](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/demian91)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2019, 7:46am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/investing-your-2nd-pillar/2098/5 "2019-04-25T07:46:56Z")
Thanks a lot, that makes sense! I contacted Both liberty and Zkb for a consultation appointment in order to gain more insights about this product and the costs behind it. I will keep you posted
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### Author:  [@demian91](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/demian91)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2019, 7:49am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/investing-your-2nd-pillar/2098/6 "2019-04-25T07:49:42Z")
> [@nugget](#):
>
> what i really dont like with all the BVG funds is their high TERs, they a fund of funds (more TER within the holdings) and often they have a purchase & sale fee.
What about the UBS one? It has the lowest TER I saw this far
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### Author:  [@demian91](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/demian91)
#### Post date: [April 25, 2019, 10:42pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/investing-your-2nd-pillar/2098/7 "2019-04-25T22:42:31Z")
I got a response for the SwissCanto Funds ZKB charges a 0.30% custody fee for the Account. So you end up with a total cost of 0.72% for the 45 Passiv VT and 0.66% for the Index 45 RT Fond. So for 2nd pillar investment is currently one of the cheapest on the market.
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### Author:  [@rolandinho](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/rolandinho)
#### Post date: [April 26, 2019, 11:16am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/investing-your-2nd-pillar/2098/8 "2019-04-26T11:16:08Z")
What totally sucks about this TER of seemingly cheap 0.7% is that this is on 100% of your amount, but only 45% is in stocks & 55% is making almost nothing or even losing money in some stupid bond funds. This makes the “real TER” for the money actually “working for u” 0.7/0.45 = \>1.5%
It’s regulated robbery and I can’t wait for VIAC to bring out their 2nd pillar product!
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### Author:  [@wapiti](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/wapiti)
#### Post date: [April 26, 2019, 11:50am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/investing-your-2nd-pillar/2098/9 "2019-04-26T11:50:55Z")
Try to ask vermoegenszentrum. You should be able to negociate to have more stocks
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### Author:  [@Double\_A](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Double_A)
#### Post date: [April 27, 2019, 3:33pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/investing-your-2nd-pillar/2098/10 "2019-04-27T15:33:46Z")
> [@rolandinho](#):
>
> I can’t wait for VIAC to bring out their 2nd pillar product!
Wouldn’t that one still need to apply to swiss regulations?
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### Author:  [@nugget](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/nugget)
#### Post date: [April 27, 2019, 11:37pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/investing-your-2nd-pillar/2098/12 "2019-04-27T23:37:47Z")
Did you look up on the Vitainvest expenses? 1.61% (!) TER for the 95% stocks version ([brochure](https://www.ubs.com/ch/de/private/pension/pillar-3/vitainvest/_jcr_content/mainpar/toplevelgrid_1711813600/col1/teaser/linklist/link.0701241118.file/bGluay9wYXRoPS9jb250ZW50L2RhbS9hc3NldHMvcmMvcHJpdmF0ZS9wZW5zaW9uL2RvY3VtZW50cy9hZHZpc29yeS0yLXBhZ2VyLXN3aXNzLXdvcmxkLWRlLnBkZg==/advisory-2-pager-swiss-world-de.pdf))
No, UBS isnt going to rip off _me_ with that.
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### Author:  [@rolandinho](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/rolandinho)
#### Post date: [April 28, 2019, 3:39pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/investing-your-2nd-pillar/2098/13 "2019-04-28T15:39:46Z")
> [@Double\_A](#):
>
> Wouldn’t that one still need to apply to swiss regulations
Hi A-A, you are of course right, this has not so much to do with swiss regulations, but more to do with being limited-to-switzerland-products, which as we know usually have their “surcharge”. The banks can charge the “surcharge” by clever advertising & taxation advantages for the client (which should not go into their pocket though). Viac has shown that they can reduce this “surcharge” for a 3a fund solution. I am waiting for a decent 2nd pillar solution for a non-employed person. Viac will follow the same regulations as others, just hopefully charge (quite a bit) less.
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### Author:  [@jmk](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/jmk)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2019, 8:02am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/investing-your-2nd-pillar/2098/14 "2019-04-30T08:02:50Z")
Me too! I have two Pillar 2 pensions doing nothing for me in a savings account for 6 months now. I keep expecting VIAC to announce their new product soon. The wait is killing me!
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### Author:  [@nugget](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/nugget)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/investing-your-2nd-pillar/2098/15 "2019-04-30T19:54:00Z")
> [@jmk](#):
>
> I keep expecting VIAC to announce their new product soon
It wont be there before fall, as customer service told me 😕
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### Author:  [@jmk](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/jmk)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2019, 9:07pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/investing-your-2nd-pillar/2098/16 "2019-04-30T21:07:57Z")
Fall?! Dang. That’s terrible. I’m in the same situation as @demian91.
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### Author:  [@demian91](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/demian91)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2019, 1:51pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/investing-your-2nd-pillar/2098/17 "2019-05-01T13:51:38Z")
I also spoke to VIAC and they confirmed they will release around Q3. Also UBS surprised me because they have actually a vested benefits account that is totally free. Once you money is there you can select funds to invest in by yourself, so you don’t have to buy the ridiculous vita invest. I asked if it is possible to enter in the UBS AST 2 BVG-40 Passive (hedged in CHF) I-A2 which has a TER = 0.22% that sounds like a good deal as the vested account maintenance doesn’t have any commission.
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### Author:  [@wapiti](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/wapiti)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2019, 9:04pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/investing-your-2nd-pillar/2098/18 "2019-05-01T21:04:15Z")
You should try to have an higher amount of equities. Also double check the TER with them, because some time you have multiple classes with different TER in the same fund
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### Author:  [@demian91](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/demian91)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2019, 10:59am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/investing-your-2nd-pillar/2098/19 "2019-05-02T10:59:13Z")
The Problem is that per law 2nd pillar Investments can have a maximum of 45% equities. But UBS recently released also a Vitainvest World 100 product with 95% equities, so I think the same trick applies for which VIAC is able to provide 97% equities on the 3a pillar. As long as the global investment of a particular BVG (2nd pillar) foundation is below 45% then I think single accounts can also get a higher percentage.
Speaking with VIAC support they also suggested me to deposit my second pillar with the WIR bank for free at 0.20% interest and wait for the end of the year when they will activate 2nd pillar in their app. So the money would be already there. I am actually considering doing that as well and miss the chance to invest my money in the next 6 months
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### Author:  [@jmk](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/jmk)
#### Post date: [July 18, 2019, 11:32am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/investing-your-2nd-pillar/2098/20 "2019-07-18T11:32:58Z")
Hi @demian91, did you go ahead and deposit your 2nd pillar in WIR bank? I’m looking to do the same thing, and then wait for VIAC to launch 2nd pillar in their app. If you have any update, I’d be grateful to hear it.
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### Author:  [@demian91](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/demian91)
#### Post date: [July 27, 2019, 12:18am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/investing-your-2nd-pillar/2098/21 "2019-07-27T00:18:03Z")
Hello, sorry for the late reply… in the end I called via and I have been told that 2nd pillar will be ready in the next months so I transfered my 2nd pillar money to WIR bank. So just waiting fir viac to release their service 🙂
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