# Increasing ordinary Pillar 2 contribution = less taxes?
**URL:** https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/increasing-ordinary-pillar-2-contribution-less-taxes/6351
**Category:** Taxes
**Created:** [May 3, 2021, 9:34am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/increasing-ordinary-pillar-2-contribution-less-taxes/6351 "2021-05-03T09:34:08Z")
**Posts on this page:** 10
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@San\_Francisco](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/San_Francisco)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2021, 3:15pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/increasing-ordinary-pillar-2-contribution-less-taxes/6351/21 "2021-05-03T15:15:41Z")
> [@Bojack](#):
>
> He will be still taxed at source
Sorry, meant to say _effectively_ not.
> [@Bojack](#):
>
> Move to Ukraine, after a month move to your actual destination.
While that might technically work, I’m not sure if it should have a place on the forum.
With the way you phrase it, it‘s a pretty straight suggestion for tax avoidance, if not fraud (deliberately stating something that‘s not true - cause a 1-month tourist isn‘t resident).
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### Author:  [@Bojack](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Bojack)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2021, 3:34pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/increasing-ordinary-pillar-2-contribution-less-taxes/6351/22 "2021-05-03T15:34:30Z")
You’re right, I don’t know about legality. I know one guy who did it, though. But **if** it is legal, then it’s tax avoidance, and why should it not belong in this forum? Rich people pay men in suits big money to be “consulted” on legal ways to save on taxes, but simple forum dwellers are not allowed to discuss it?
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### Author:  [@Cortana](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Cortana)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2021, 4:42pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/increasing-ordinary-pillar-2-contribution-less-taxes/6351/23 "2021-05-03T16:42:55Z")
Why withdraw 2nd/3rd pillar accounts early when dividends aren’t taxed as income? Has anybody made the calculation if it’s worth it to keep it invested in Viac/ValuePension after leaving CH vs. withdrawing it early and reinvest it in IBKR?
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### Author:  [@Patirou](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Patirou)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2021, 4:47pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/increasing-ordinary-pillar-2-contribution-less-taxes/6351/24 "2021-05-03T16:47:46Z")
You can’t keep a 3a account after leaving Switzerland as far as I know. Furthermore depending on your new country of residency, it might not be tax free anymore.
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### Author:  [@Cortana](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Cortana)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2021, 4:51pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/increasing-ordinary-pillar-2-contribution-less-taxes/6351/25 "2021-05-03T16:51:23Z")
You absolutely can. 3rd pillar accounts till 65 and 2nd pillar accounts till 70.
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### Author:  [@Patirou](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Patirou)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2021, 4:55pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/increasing-ordinary-pillar-2-contribution-less-taxes/6351/26 "2021-05-03T16:55:58Z")
You seem to be right, no need to take the money. However depending on your new country this accounts might not be tax sheltered anymore, (and same for the second pillar). I guess this necessitate a thourough analysis of the relevant double taxation agreement…
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### Author:  [@nabalzbhf](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/nabalzbhf)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2021, 8:27pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/increasing-ordinary-pillar-2-contribution-less-taxes/6351/27 "2021-05-03T20:27:17Z")
Though I bet most european countries would at least recognize pillar2 as tax sheltered (and likely 3a as well).
There’s probably a EU or OECD framework to guide those, and typically if it wasn’t taxed as income when contributing it’s considered sheltered.
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### Author:  [@Hemingway](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Hemingway)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2021, 9:05pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/increasing-ordinary-pillar-2-contribution-less-taxes/6351/28 "2021-05-03T21:05:54Z")
> [@Cortana](#):
>
> Why withdraw 2nd/3rd pillar accounts early when dividends aren’t taxed as income? Has anybody made the calculation if it’s worth it to keep it invested in Viac/ValuePension after leaving CH vs. withdrawing it early and reinvest it in IBKR?
This is a very good point. If someone has done the math, please contribute.
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### Author:  [@Daniel](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Daniel)
#### Post date: [May 4, 2021, 9:32am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/increasing-ordinary-pillar-2-contribution-less-taxes/6351/29 "2021-05-04T09:32:55Z")
The rule of thumb is:
For long terms, contributing to the second pillar saves money because you trade X years of income tax payments for just 1 capital withdrawal tax payment. The more years you avoid income tax, the greater the benefit of contributing to the second pillar.
For short terms, you have to compare the income tax savings to the capital withdrawal tax you will pay. In most cases, the capital withdrawal tax is slightly lower, but this varies between cantons. In most cases, for terms of just 1 year it is pretty much a zero sum game.
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### Author:  [@Giff](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Giff)
#### Post date: [May 4, 2021, 8:57pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/increasing-ordinary-pillar-2-contribution-less-taxes/6351/30 "2021-05-04T20:57:16Z")
> [@Hemingway](#):
>
> I am now looking to leave Switzerland in a year, so was thinking of increasing my monthly Pillar 2 payments to reduce the tax bill
You might reduce your tax bill but then you might not be able to (easily) get your money back. It depends where you go to and lots has been written about it (also here).
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