I am so afraid this is the worst time to RE - What do you think?

[MrCheese]

@Fork

from my brother dying to my wife requesting a divorce

Sorry for your losses.

@kane

but was the divorce related to your retirement?

I’d be curious to hear the answer to this as it’s one of my bigger concerns, also endangering the FIRE plan as a whole from a financial perspective.

[Fork]

@Wolverine

I just wanted to extend my sympathies and thank you for sharing your experience, especially this bit, which I’ll keep with me going forward (also as a reminder not to sacrifice spending quality time with our loved ones on the path to FIRE).

Thanks a lot. Well, I can really only tell you and everybody here to keep pushing for FIRE. Being able to be close to whoever you love whenever you want is invaluable.

@kane

I know it’s probably quite a personal question, but was the divorce related to your retirement? Is your (ex) wife still working or also retired?

No, I don’t think it is. The problems we had were there since way before my retirement. There was maybe a slight stressor in me being “always home” but I wouldn’t call my retirement as being responsible in any way.
As a sidenote: my retirement is not materially impacted by the divorce as we always had a marriage contract and no kids.

She is not retired even though I offered her to do so when I did. She has her own store and even though corona was tough, she loves being entrepreneurial.

[dbu]

@Fork

As a sidenote: my retirement is not materially impacted by the divorce as we always had a marriage contract and no kids.

This would be my follow-up question, but you answered it preemptively.
Sorry for delving further off topic (we could fork it if it sparks interest), but I am curious.

How do people doing it (the contract) go about this?
Is/was it kind of a sensitive topic with your spouses?
E.g. one side earns and bound to create more wealth than the other, “in love” and all that jazz, yet wants to cut the risk of having to split it all 50/50 one day in case things go downhill.
Could it be set up in a “fair way”, e.g. specify 70/30 split or something alike?

[Cortana]

Don’t see that happening. She is covered by IV and her pension fund.

[ma0]

@Fork

Good question, thanks for asking! In these last months a lot happened…

My simpathies your post is sad and at the same time enlightening.

@_MP : please have a look at this:

Retort - a reaction-style plugin for Discourse

It feels too weird for me to “like” a post about a loss. Let’s add more emoticons.

@TeaCup

Marriage Contracts may not be enforced in Switzerland.

The more probable case if I remember correctly would be without point 4. In that case I think you have to split the savings from 150k x 5years, since the 3M were earned before the marriage.

On a slightly different case, if the spouse has a job (say 50k/y), after the divorce, she might be the one that pays.

All that if there is no Contracts though.

[Fork]

@TeaCup

Depending on circumstances (does / could the spouse work, are there any economic dependants, …) you could from such starting point either be positively or negatively surprised.

I completely agree. A marriage contract can define how the assets are split when you divorce, it cannot however revoke your responsibility to maintain your partner untile he/she is able to stand on his/her own feet (which may be never).

@ma0

The more probable case if I remember correctly would be without point 4. In that case I think you have to split the savings from 150k x 5years, since the 3M were earned before the marriage.

And that’s the interesting part. In my case the lawyers on both my and her sides have concluded that in theory she would have no rights to anything. The reasons summarised:

• Asset wise my wealth comes from cryptocurrency bought and declared before the marriage. These assets were not touched until they were sold and they were then transferred only to accounts in my personal name. The trail is clear, there was no intermingling of funds, there are multiple ways to proof they are “mine” and originate from before our marriage. I always shared my wealth with my spouse but I always mitigated the risk of an unexpected divorce, which is why I was always extra careful.

• Our savings during marriage were practically zero. Mainly because we kept investing in ourselves (startups, her shop etc) so there is not much to share. Yes, not very mustachian but I always tried to build wealth through building companies and startups.

• Income wise she has a job and is healthy. So she is able to provide for her standard of living and I have no obbligation to support her for (worst case) more than maybe a few months.

But I still have a good relationship to her, so we came to the amicable agreement, that I will leave her most of the inheritance of my brother. That sum is confortable. It will not allow her to retire but will allow her to live well for more than a decade. For me it’s certainly a hit but I never planned with such an inheritance and my FI/RE plan is thus unchanged. I find it’s a fair agreement that keeps both my dream intact and gives her the best chances to a good future. Some may say that I am too nice, but for me it feels fair. And my brother would be happy, he was fond of both of us.

[dbu]

@TeaCup

Marriage Contracts may not be enforced in Switzerland. No matter what you agree among the two, the judge will rule.

Just following up on this a bit off topic.

Isn’t it pretty well defined here? (example)

Gütertrennung in der Schweiz § Rechtslage, Vor- und Nachteile

I see though, there are court orders that might override.

[Burningstone]

@dbu

I see though, there are court orders that might override.

That’s the point, a judge can always negate the agreement and in most cases in favor of the wife.

[the_p]

There was a somewhat recent article saying that the courts are starting to rule that basically after a divorce, the divorced are responsible for themselves.

Urteile des Bundesgerichts - Bundesgericht setzt «klassische Hausfrau» unter...

[_MP]

@ma0

please have a look at this:

Thanks @ma0 for this idea, I like it a lot!
I just installed and enabled a similar (but more maintained) plugin => https://meta.discourse.org/t/discourse-reactions-beyond-likes

I hope you like it