# Huge fees exiting 3A Life Insurance
**URL:** https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/huge-fees-exiting-3a-life-insurance/3222
**Category:** Banks, Insurances & Third Pillar
**Created:** [February 10, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/huge-fees-exiting-3a-life-insurance/3222 "2020-02-10T18:46:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 9
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Omaha](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Omaha)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2020, 6:46pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/huge-fees-exiting-3a-life-insurance/3222/1 "2020-02-10T18:46:03Z")
Hi,
Similarly to @nugget and @Mr.Paprika I (my GF precisely) encounter issues regarding 3A life insurance closing with huge fees for exiting the contract.
- She subscribed to a 3A Life Insurance Insurance with Groupe Mutuel in 2017.
- She deposited CHF 6’000 3 times (2017/2018/2019) for a total of CHF 18’000.
- She can only withdraw 10’138 CHF, so a lost (legal steal?) of CHF 7862.
She asked for a detail of how it is calculated. They answered the precise calcul is too complex for you and we have “professional secret”. They advised her to ask FINMA for verifying if the Groupe Mutuel calcul method was legit.
I can’t understand this lack of transparency, acting as if the client was stupid.
How can they keep 43.4% of an investment as fees of a 3-year passive gestion. I can understand breaking a contract causes fees, but their amount is just a steal.
I saw some of you exited 3a Life insurance without losing that much, any idea on how to proceed and if FINMA is the right choice (alone or with financial adviser help)?
(Reading and rereading the contract, it said in case of exit, client should withdraw at least 2/3 of the “mathematical reserve”. Is mathematical reserve different to deposits??)
Thanks!
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### Author:  [@mbaluda](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/mbaluda)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2020, 10:46pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/huge-fees-exiting-3a-life-insurance/3222/2 "2020-02-10T22:46:31Z")
This comparison from Generali compares the costs of 3a funds.
It does not include Groupe Mutuel but it might help you understand the fees structure:
[https://www.generali.ch/dam/generali/documents/files-en/produktedokumente/3a/Our-costs-compared-to-the-market](https://www.generali.ch/dam/generali/documents/files-en/produktedokumente/3a/Our-costs-compared-to-the-market)
These costs do not include the insurance for disability which in my experience is around 3% to 3.5% of the amount insured per year.
For example at Generali 96chf for 3000chf insureed
([https://3a.generali.ch/en-gb/customer/public](https://3a.generali.ch/en-gb/customer/public))
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### Author:  [@pandas](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/pandas)
#### Post date: [February 10, 2020, 11:07pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/huge-fees-exiting-3a-life-insurance/3222/3 "2020-02-10T23:07:27Z")
Life insurance is not free. Just insuring mere death risk costs a few hundred franks a year.
There are various administrative costs associated with policy (such as bonus to salesman who sold it to her). These get charged at the beginning of the term and amortized over the policy’s duration, so naturally it’s most expensive to cancel shortly after the start of the insurance.
If you choose to keep the insurance for longer, in terms of percentage value the loss will become smaller as you would mostly be paying just for risk insurance going forward, but not for any more bonuses.
> [@Omaha](#):
>
> She asked for a detail of how it is calculated. They answered the precise calcul is too complex for you and we have “professional secret”. They advised her to ask FINMA for verifying if the Groupe Mutuel calcul method was legit.
Yes, Art. 90 VVG and Art. 127 AVO give you this right. FINMA will check free of charge whether the amounts they’re withholding are reasonable.
> [@Omaha](#):
>
> I can’t understand this lack of transparency
It’s by design. If you tell clients with a straight face that a few thousands franks from their payments will go straight to the salesman as a bonus for signing you up, noone would buy such a product. The law currently permits to sweep such charges under the rug until you decide to cash out.
> [@Omaha](#):
>
> acting as if the client was stupid.
well, she fell into this trap, so…
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### Author:  [@essential](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/essential)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2020, 9:49am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/huge-fees-exiting-3a-life-insurance/3222/4 "2020-02-11T09:49:50Z")
Your payment in the first year (6000 CHF) is the provision for the salesmen. Sad but true.
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### Author:  [@Omaha](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Omaha)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2020, 10:55am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/huge-fees-exiting-3a-life-insurance/3222/5 "2020-02-11T10:55:13Z")
Mmh okay we will contact FINMA then but money seems pretty lost.
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### Author:  [@Cortana](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Cortana)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2020, 11:03am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/huge-fees-exiting-3a-life-insurance/3222/6 "2020-02-11T11:03:22Z")
The 1st year of any insurance is always the provision for the salesman.
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### Author:  [@glina](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/glina)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2020, 12:14pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/huge-fees-exiting-3a-life-insurance/3222/7 "2020-02-11T12:14:28Z")
Household insurance? Health insurance? Car insurance? Risk of life insurance? Do not generalize 🙂
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### Author:  [@Cortana](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Cortana)
#### Post date: [February 11, 2020, 2:30pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/huge-fees-exiting-3a-life-insurance/3222/8 "2020-02-11T14:30:42Z")
Still, 1st year is usually the provision for the salesman. But in those cases you mentioned you don’t really care.
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### Author:  [@Dr.PI](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Dr.PI)
#### Post date: [November 3, 2023, 12:09pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/huge-fees-exiting-3a-life-insurance/3222/9 "2023-11-03T12:09:13Z")