Back to the original topic- homesickness. To what degree is the grass greener on the other side? Are holiday impressions anywhere near how real life would be there? Are childhood/young adult memories indicative of how life is there today? If you have kids, think one generation further, where would you want your grand-kids to grow up?
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I’ve lived in around 15 countries over the course of my life. These are my takeaways:
- Feeling at home is primarily about relationships with people. The geography and even culture play relatively minor roles.
- Every place has pros and cons. It’s best to ignore both, and simply work with what is.
- You can have a great time even in what most people would consider a real sh*thole, if you have the attitude for it.
- A place will first start to grow on you when you allow it to (e.g. learn the language, get involved in the community, make local friends).
- There’s a German term “Die Qual der Wahl” which well describes today’s world of endless options. It can be helpful to make belief that you are in a past time when adopting a “home” was a permanent or at least very long-term decision. Once it is clearly understood that you will stay in a place permanently, you will begin behaving in a way that will result in your feeling at home there. That won’t happen as long as leaving is an ongoing consideration.
- If there is already a place/situation where you feel completely happy and satisfied, drop what you’re doing and go there. Finding a way to make a living and raise your kids is easy compared to finding a setup that you really love.
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This is the unpopular truth. In my life I’ve pushed regardless of the prospects, because i’ve always believed that opportunities would eventually show up. And they did. Am I a milionare? no, but i feel lucky to be able to even start a discussion with my wife regarding relocation or buying a property even in Switzerland if I wanted to.
I hear you, and i agree with many of the points you are making. Just yesterday i was shooting a video from the park i was playing with my kid to my home. No cars, beautiful, silent, and I sent it to my oldest friend. He told me “Sei pazzo a voler tornare” - you are crazy wanting to come back. Quite honestly, i think that this forum has helped me a lot putting things in perspective. I feel a bit better now, the next challenge is to get this at the next level and look at things more objectively. No financial issues, wonderful kids who are well treated and respected, amazing wife. I can’t let this little thing in my head to get in the way of all of this. So, a big thank you.
PS. In June/August 2027 be ready for my next rant, when I will feel it again. Hopefully not:)
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This is the key. Even if you move somewhere for just 2 years, you have to treat it as if you are going to live there forever. That’s the only way you invest your time and energy to do things properly instead of always having one foot out of the door.
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Can’t you turn it around: make your place in Valais your primary residence and just rent a small pied a terre in Zurich? I realize with a family that is not practical, but if you’re single… you may be able to do 3 days / week in Valais.
I tried having home in separate city from work (Basel v Zurich) and it didn’t really work well for me. This was even without kids. I managed for maybe 2-3 years but had to move in the end.
Having grown up in ‘hard mode’… nothing particularly special but unpleasant nonetheless (stereotypical story: violent father, alcoholic mother, eventually living in social housing with my divorced mother living off Sozialhilfe, emotionally ice cold, frequently struggling to pay rent or buy groceries at the end of the month) I can honestly say it ‘f$%^cked me up’ just as much as it may have helped me to become resilient.
If you want ‘hard’ in Switzerland - send your kids to a 2 week mountaineering course 
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If you pick the right zip code, you will forge 2 your warriors.
Not sure about academics though…
I’m not even talking about kids being given a hard life. It’s nice for kids to be kids when they are small. But also that they have some appreciation for the world and some street smarts.
I know one guy who was so fed up of how spoiled his kids were getting, he took them on holiday to a poor rural part of India (where he grew up) so they could see how little some other kids had and how lucky they were.
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Fair point. I wonder though if Switzerland is really extraordinary vs. other countries in terms of there being a ‘spoiled class’ of children. For sure, it’s a bit of a paradise (health, nature, safety, etc.) but I’ve found that most well off Swiss are not very in your face (old money) and that society does a fairly decent job integrating people (schools, sport, military service) from different walks of life. I may change my mind as my child grows older of course and admittedly live in a ‘wealthy low tax’ town bubble.
The western european (non-Swiss) city where I studies had a very business focused university and a lot of ‘rich kids’ studying there (the kind who’d get a free flat to live in paid by daddy and enough spending money to drive a BMW and a motorcycle… and then they’d complain that they didn’t have enough cash to go on a second ski trip that year… as a student, mind you!).
It’s always good to be well grounded and upbringing certainly helps with that. Putting the ‘ghetto’ back into ‘the kid’ when the kid was not born in the ghetto doesn’t work in the end though in my view.
In any case, already agreed with my wife that in due course our son will be shoveling the snow for us and our neighbours to earn some extra CHF:)
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I am not sure this works any more than being told “finish your food, there are kids in the world who’re starving”. If anything it may make them feel entitled.
Edit: of course it’s one thing being told, and another seeing with your own eyes so I could be wrong, I think it’s the same for most things one doesn’t experience on their own skin, unless someone has superhuman levels of empathy.
I an inclined to agree.
While I don’t want to deprive my son from opportunities, I think (early days for me though - he’s only a few weeks old!) the key is to not let lifestyle inflate to the same extent wealth does. Not much different than typical FIRE advice: the higher your comp, the higher your savings % should be => the higher your wealth, the lower (relatively) your ‘consumerist’ spend on your child should be. And then, they’ll probably still be somewhat spoiled and better off than the vast majority.
My wife and I have decided we’re not going to go overboard buying him stuff and spend more on
- experiences
- contributions to his investment account
…similar to advice for most adults:)
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Snow might be tough, but I send my son to sweep the leaves off the driveway and also for the elderly neighbours. He loves it!
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This is my experience…IF the child enjoys a privileged lifestyle in the given location. It’s quite different if the lifestyle is adjusted to that of local median-income earners.
Another side of the coin: Growing up in a place that doesn’t have a social safety net can give you a very different concept of wealth and entrepreneurship.
A possible advantage I see about growing up in Switzerland is that the child develops a Swiss concept of money (high expenses/high incomes) that could hypothetically motivate them to push for that level of income when living outside of Switzerland as well.
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One very important aspect is that, if they choose jobs in a private sector that doesn’t require a license (like doctor or lawyer) the way of apprenticeship + FH is more sensible (money and experience) wise than Uni. Even if they choose to go to uni, you can make sure they study something useful and have to work a minimal amount of hours to suppport themselves at least a little bit.
But I think the heavy lifting of raising the kids and instilling values has already happened at that point.
I actually think this works great for 90% of cases - unless someone has actual allergies or an eating disorder / strange tastebuds. I used to hate literally everything as a kid
, now I can eat everything. Being able to choose what you eat is imho a privillege, especially when you reject food someone else has made for you.
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If I would not have been dirt poor growing up, I may have very well chosen a ‘less useful’ path during studies and enjoyed a more fulfilling (albeit less financially lucrative) career and the corresponding mental / physical health benefits.
I believe what matters is that children (ideally) find something they are passionate about. I chose ‘earning money’ more out of necessity. A friend studied history, then ended up in IT with a bank and was absolutely miserable until - after a few years - he quit, went back to study archeology, and became a poorly paid archeologist… but a VERY happy one. He met his wife at a dig in central asia and they both life in Spain now. Materially they are not well off, but they are all VERY happy.
My wife and I discussed in great detail what we consider important for our child - money / success was not among them. We concluded on
- Health
- Happiness
- That he loves both his parents
Admittedly, $$$ benefits can enable 1+2 but as I grow older increasingly I realize this should be less about $$$ to ‘consume’ and more about the freedom it enables.
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Yes!
In my understanding, this is the very core of the mustachian/FIRE concept. Frugal living to enable the earliest possible financial independence. Many of the financial plans I see in this forum are designed around providing an income equal to that of an average Swiss consumer. Nothing wrong with that, but I feel it kind of misses the point. For some people, having enough passive income for basic room & board while they do what they enjoy is more than enough.
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While I appreciate the sentiment, I think
- This forum is will with (well) above average income / wealth posters
- For many such people, FIRE is defined slightly different - i.e. independence but maintaining a different living standard than bare mininum. I’d also add: having the means to deal with major financials risks.
Not saying one is more or less worthy than the other.