That’s a matter of perspective. I moved to Switzerland from an even safer country in Asia. One of the reasons was to expose the kids to a bit of the real world, i.e. trying to avoid them being too soft and naive.
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Hmmm I have mixed feelings about your first statement, what I mean is that here they get to know and interact with people from many backgrounds (eg African + Swiss, British + Russian, Irish + Swiss, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Turkish, Balkan etc etc etc) which I consider a good thing. They also get become fluent in two extra languages (German and French) for free, plus we often hop around the Basel/Alsace-Strasbourg/Freiburg areas (next target is Italy). I don’t know how much they’re internalising from this, but it’s something most kids in Greece don’t have. Plus the education system offers experiences they wouldn’t get (days out hiking/camping, volunteering days, “watch a profession at work” type days is what we just heard from the school) Greece is very sterile and academic.
We agree on your second point, it’s a balance between strolling on the perfect Swiss pavement without a care in the world, and the broken Athenian pavement with random trees in the middle and psychotic drivers 2cm away 
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I can share my personal situation. I’ve lived in Switzerland for the last 11 years. I requested for Swiss citizenship 1 year ago, still waiting for any news. I live with a Swiss partner, though things seem to be going nowhere. I feel the urge to “try again” with someone new, and she knows it. It’s just convenient to continue to live together, and somehow neither of us has it in themselves to do something about it. So we’re like flatmates who still go on holidays together. I know, weird.
At the same time, my savings have been moving to the direction of FIRE. Admittedly, there was a short window of opportunity where I could have converted all my risky investments into something boring and stable and retired back then, but I missed it. Now I’m in this weird limbo, where I’m waiting for the bounce back, while already being unmotivated about my job.
Life in Switzerland has been great. I love the order, the cleanliness, the nature, the closeness of lakes, mountains and cute towns, and it’s a good base for foreign road trips. The income is great, the tax regime is relatively pleasant, comparing to the rest of Europe.
BUT. I haven’t really set my roots in Switzerland. My friends are some Polish people who also moved to Switzerland, or my work colleagues. Friendships aren’t deep. I haven’t bought any real estate, still 100% into digital assets. No family. If I FIRE, I’m free to go.
So although I’m not there yet, this decision is looming over my head. These last few years have been a source of great stress to me. The dwindling relationship, the unstable investments, the lack of a goal beyond FIRE. I don’t even know if I want kids or not, and I’m already 40. I’m starting to feel old, too. Always tired. Can’t imagine how I would attract a girl in her 20s 
.
At the same time, Poland has been developing. I enjoy my holidays in Poland. I know that it can be a trap, that being somewhere on holiday is different to actually living there, but it makes me consider pros of each location.
Zurich:
- good income
- good tax
- quality of life
- lakes, mountains, towns
Poland:
- cost of life
- being back with my people
- being closer to family and aging parents
Wild shot - Ticino / Croatia:
- more sunshine, better weather (I just hate it when it’s cold and gray and rainy for half a year)
So yeah, the word “homesickness” in the title triggered this rant. I hope you enjoyed it 
.
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I certainly identified with a lot in your post.
Not the right forum, and my personal experience was becoming single at 30, and before meeting my wife: the pool of 30+ and 40+ divorced was great. People know what they want at that age, esp 40+, no bullshit, it’s all crystal clear from the start.
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If you retire to Poland, could you do it now due to the lower cost of living?
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Alone, in some cheap place? Probably yes. But living costs are going up fast and bridging the gap between Poland and Switzerland. Real estate is very expensive, too, at least in attractive places.
But if I wanted to pay for kids or even convince a girl to at least postpone her career goals and become a mother, then I don’t know. It could still work, but I’m sure my parents would freak out and undermine my already fragile conviction about this .
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My wife probably won’t stop working either once we’re FIREd… I see it as a bonus on my end - means I need to provide less. I also don’t plan to “travel the world” or whatever marketing stuff people tell you in this context - just wanna scratch my balls and chill a bit - while doing my very time intensive, but really cheap hobbies.
Can you elaborate, what exactly you mean by this? I feel like the whole "you need to experience/find yoursel etc. talk is not true for most people - in fact, waay too many people can’t handle the freedom of choices they get. A significant portion of my well of friends are absolute failures in life and are completely overwhelmed by their choices and studying till 30… )'d personally say that the other immigrant kids who couldn’t afford to waste time are way better off, despite non rich parents. (Ofc, there are also well off people that do have their life together - those then become politicians, enterpreneurs, etc.)
OMG 100% - can we get a thread for this? This is a very important topic I never heard anyone address. I am thinking really hard about how to make my kids “struggle the right way” so they don’t struggle the wrong one and get into hard drugs, are irresilient and overwhelmed by basic social existance…
If you read on Reddit for example, certain people seem to be “drained” if a stanger asks them when the bus goes… like how do I prevent my kids from becoming such failures in life ?
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Aren‘t you doing that already, according to your other posts?
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I mean developing adaptability, resilience and the ability to navigate new and uncertain situations.
I’ve seen grown-up lose their shit when a train is 3 minutes late. Or frozen like deer in the headlights when something has gone wrong because they are too used to everything just working perfectly. Or frankly behaviour that in another country would land them in hospital, if not the morgue.
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Wanna scratch some more!
Also all while not needing to think about when my money will run out… after all look at the time rn. I’m doing a very good job at working productively
Mah man! I could have written that!
Screw the world, there’s plenty to see in any given 500km radius, that’s enough for me - I’ve seen enough of the world already, hate most of it anyway.
Exactement, enough bullshit so far.
Ditto, some of my hobbies have upfront costs but most are indeed pretty cheap too.
Absolutely agree, choices are vile poison for most, leading to analysis paralysis. What works great for most people is in fact fairly common over here (one more genius practical thing of CH): a set life glidepath like school > ausbildung > marry your neighbour > accountant at UBS for 35 years > grave. Really, we’re artificially putting a lot on ourselves with fake choices and ambitions, some can handle it, most can’t.
I recall an Indian friend from university, while us other lads were agonizing over girls he was complete zen, one day I wondered why, he told me “I am getting married after graduation”. At the time it shocked me, thought “poor guy”, now I don’t think so anymore!
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by teaching them at from a young age.
whenever something is wrong or broken or needs fixing, i call him to help or watch so he learns.
i explain what needs to be done. why it needs to be done and how it should be done and what are the underlying principles and reasons.
i give him responsibilities. he now has to get to and from the places he needs to be on his own and on time.
i told him yesterday that after he gets home from school, he should take laundry off the drying rack, sort it between mine, his and his sisters and tidy his own clothes into his wardrobe. he should also put the dirty laundry in the machine and run it so it is ready for me when i get home.
he’s then responsible to get it done. you’d be amazed at the number of people who would say “I couldn’t find the laundry basket so it wasn’t done.” I don’t accept excuses, he has a job, he finds a way to get it done. his sister’s clothes he puts into his sister’s room, and mine in my room. i don’t tell him to do that, he should know that is what is to be done. as he learns, i push him to do more, think more, take more responsibility.
when he used to wet the bed, I’d get up in the night to help him shower, change the sheets and put the soiled clothes into laundry. after explaining various principle’s including my need to sleep, after a while, he learned to shower himself, get changed, put soiled stuff into washing machine and run it so it would be ready in the morning. look for other blankets, once he went down to the living room and slept on the sofa there.
he’s just turned 8 years old. i’m very proud of how well he is developing and learning. he’s learning more and doing more. often things which i do not instruct him directly because he is now internalizing principles.
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I was amazed at university at the number of young men who were essentially unable to perform basic life-maintenance tasks like shopping for food and basic hygiene for a few weeks. Some remained this way in fact. I was asking myself how did these people make it to 18-19, and what they’d do after.
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I lived with some. I could tell you some stories… 
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preach brother!
Jokes aside - there is a lot of very unnatural scheduling and mental load connected with being employed. Simply not having to worry about this is a huge relief. In between school and work, I was unemployed for like 9 months and it was the best time of my life ngl - I had all the time I wanted for myself.
There are many hobbies that are super cheap that you can sink YEARS into… even more expensive ones (like cycling) are quite cheap “per hour” if you really do them diligently.
I 100% agree with what you said. Most people want and need a clear path in life. This self fullfilment stuff is a very ivory tower concept of a well off part of society. I don’t want to get political here, but can see to what this leads… and I don’t think it is sustainable.
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While I agree with everything you said here, this is “only” teaching responsibility, not struggle and not resilliance.
In a way, I think it’s not replicable… My parents weren’t Swiss, my dad earned very little money and raised us on a single income. This struggle has made me what I am today. I can work like a horse if necesarry and while I did have “ups and downs” in life, I never had “depression” or any other arbitrary mental illness most people apparently have these days. Even when I didn’t feel it, I stayed at my job for 2y, because it was the only right thing to do at that time - just giving up because it was more convenient never occured to me, idk.
When I talk to well off Swiss friends (like really Swiss friends, with generational ties / wealth) I just see and witness how useless some of them are - for a lack of better words. If those dudes and girls were forced to work 60h a week for 3-4y, they just couldn’t do it - while in my mind, it’s just sometimes necesarry to give 150% in life for some periods in time (did a degree while working 90% - those were my 60+h weeks). Although, I must say that I’m very good at looking busy - so I always managed to maximize my timesheet cheting .
Being resilient is something I haven’t figured out myself from an intellectual standpoint… Idk why some people are “burnt out” while doing their regular 40h job, while I can do a degree and still work 36+h a week 
. I really am not such a workhorse and either I’m doing something right or some other peopple are doing it wrong, no clue.
There is so much stuff going into having a family - but in the end. I’ll just do my best ig.
Indeed, but I don’t have all day to write out an essay covering everything. You get the idea
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I mean this would’ve been pretty interesting, your call
From the level of complaints sounds you all found the right place, where ‘burn out’ is ultimate prize, to call home
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Amended it, a good excuse to deal with nosy people is priceless.
As John J. Rambo said “They haven’t been me!”. I’m sick of hearing people who haven’t been abroad for more than 3 days “Ahhhh stay there, it’s great blah blah” knowing full well they’d be on suicide watch the moment they can’t get their favourite coffee.
Or as others say “Ahhh, I had options, I had choices in life, let me tell you, my uncle told me to join him to look for diamonds in South Africa in the 50s, but I had the wife here you know, need to care of your house first, now he lives in an ivory palace and rides a golden unicorn, don’t be like me, take the opportunity, carpe diem, there’s treasure out there”, and you know it’s a guy who never left their neighbourhood, let along their country for 60 years 