# How to disclose stocks positions to tax authorities
**URL:** https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/how-to-disclose-stocks-positions-to-tax-authorities/5522
**Category:** Taxes
**Created:** [February 2, 2021, 10:57pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/how-to-disclose-stocks-positions-to-tax-authorities/5522 "2021-02-02T22:57:29Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@San\_Francisco](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/San_Francisco)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2021, 10:57pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/how-to-disclose-stocks-positions-to-tax-authorities/5522/1 "2021-02-02T22:57:29Z")
> [@GameStop short squeeze](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/gamestop-short-squeeze/5281/472):
>
> I only know Kreisschreiben Nr. 36 and it states when you aren’t a professional trader
Exactly.
There you have it: “a non-subjective way to classify”.
That’s exactly what you wanted (well… kind of. We’ll get to that).
> [@GameStop short squeeze](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/gamestop-short-squeeze/5281/472):
>
> Please just tell me I’m wrong and its crystal clear
It’s crystal clear when you are “safe”, i.e. when you are **not** classified a professional trader.
You just don’t seem to _ **like** _ the conclusion 😈 since your very _personal_ behaviour doesn’t entirely fall within those “safe” criteria. But that’s just …_your_ **personal** (investment) **choice**?!
> [@GameStop short squeeze](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/gamestop-short-squeeze/5281/472):
>
> Sorry but that’s not clearly laid out for me.
The preliminary criteria on the other hand are very clear. I quote (emphasis them, not me):
_Die Steuerbehörden gehen **in jedem Fall** von einer privaten Vermögensverwaltung bzw. von steuerfreien privaten Kapitalgewinnen aus, wenn die nachfolgenden **Kriterien kumulativ erfüllt** sind._
_1. Die Haltedauer der veräusserten Wertschriften beträgt mindestens 6 Monate._
_2. Das Transaktionsvolumen (entspricht der Summe aller Kaufpreise und Verkaufserlöse) pro Kalenderjahr beträgt gesamthaft nicht mehr als das Fünffache des Wertschriften- und Guthabenbestands zu Beginn der Steuerperiode._
_3. Das Erzielen von Kapitalgewinnen aus Wertschriftengeschäften bildet keine Notwendigkeit, um fehlende oder wegfallende Einkünfte zur Lebenshaltung zu ersetzen. Das ist regelmässig dann der Fall, wenn die realisierten Kapitalgewinne weniger als 50% des Reineinkommens in der Steuerperiode betragen._
_4. Die Anlagen sind nicht fremdfinanziert oder die steuerbaren Vermögenserträge aus den Wertschriften (wie z.B. Zinsen, Dividenden, usw.) sind grösser als die anteiligen Schuldzinsen._
_5. Der Kauf und Verkauf von Derivaten (insbesondere Optionen) beschränkt sich auf die Absicherung von eigenen Wertschriftenpositionen._
> [@GameStop short squeeze](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/gamestop-short-squeeze/5281/472):
>
> Please just tell me I’m wrong and its crystal clear that nobody of us poor mustachians is a professional trader
That’s what you _want_ to hear. 😉
For practical purposes, they tax authorities are busy and are (with 99.9% certainty) **not** going classify you as a professional trader for an occasional breach of the given criteria. Such as a one-time realisation of large gains that accounts for more than half of your income in a year. Or YOLOing on some stock you heard about on the internet once.
It can be reasonably anticipated with **common sense** that that alone doesn’t make you a professional.
---
### Author:  [@Alvo](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Alvo)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2021, 11:49pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/how-to-disclose-stocks-positions-to-tax-authorities/5522/2 "2021-02-02T23:49:36Z")
> [@San\_Francisco](#):
>
> There you have it: “a non-subjective way to classify”.
> That’s exactly what you wanted (well… kind of. We’ll get to that).
Haha no what I want is to identify a professional trader not a nonprofessional trader.
I know how to stay safe, but I don’t know what happens in a situation like we have here with arthur.
> [@San\_Francisco](#):
>
> For practical purposes, they tax authorities are busy and are (with 99.9% certainty) **not** going classify you as a professional trader for an occasional breach of the given criteria. Such as a one-time realisation of large gains that accounts for more than half of your income in a year. Or YOLOing on some stock you heard about on the internet once.
THAT’S what I want to hear and what I assume, but it seems to be subjective. The outcome could depend on the person processing your tax declaration.
I get what you mean but I’m not sure if I could make clear what I mean.
I guess we talk about the same thing. 🙂
> [@San\_Francisco](#):
>
> It can be reasonably anticipated with **common sense** that that alone doesn’t make you a professional.
Your trust in tax authorities seems to much bigger than mine. 😄
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### Author:  [@ma0](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/ma0)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2021, 8:06am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/how-to-disclose-stocks-positions-to-tax-authorities/5522/3 "2021-02-03T08:06:13Z")
> **[It’s Time for Real-Time Settlement - Robinhood Newsroom](https://newsroom.aboutrobinhood.com/its-time-for-real-time-settlement/)**
>
> By Vlad Tenev, CEO and Co-Founder, Robinhood It’s time for T+2 to go. Last week we saw the impact the
Regarding professional trading: Please stop discussing it. It’s not that they are going to cut your head… You pay more taxes once and that’s it. (It won’t happen, though)
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### Author:  [@dom.swiss](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/dom.swiss)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2021, 9:21am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/how-to-disclose-stocks-positions-to-tax-authorities/5522/4 "2021-02-03T09:21:54Z")
There was a time when I put all securities positions at year end in the tax form. Then I checked what I had submitted the previous year and I added all corresponding buy/sell transactions to explain the delta. I didn’t bother about what had happened within the year. I started submitting tax returns when they were still handwritten and YE positions was the way to do it. Not 100% compliant of me, as an afterthought. 😉 I was never challenged in the later electronic era, as the tax authorities had bigger fish to fry.
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### Author:  [@xorfish](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/xorfish)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2021, 9:32am UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/how-to-disclose-stocks-positions-to-tax-authorities/5522/5 "2021-02-03T09:32:39Z")
I just report my year end positions and the total dividends reported by IB.
The transactions are documented in the activity report.
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### Author:  [@arthur](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/arthur)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2021, 1:46pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/how-to-disclose-stocks-positions-to-tax-authorities/5522/6 "2021-02-03T13:46:47Z")
Attaching the activity report gives maximum transparency clearly.
But legally you are not required to hand it in?
Account for all dividends and declare the EOY portfolio and that is it, I thought.
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### Author:  [@xorfish](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/xorfish)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2021, 1:49pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/how-to-disclose-stocks-positions-to-tax-authorities/5522/7 "2021-02-03T13:49:20Z")
I don’t want to be a pain in the ass for the people that verify my taxes.
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### Author:  [@San\_Francisco](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/San_Francisco)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2021, 2:17pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/how-to-disclose-stocks-positions-to-tax-authorities/5522/8 "2021-02-03T14:17:46Z")
> [@arthur](#):
>
> But legally you are not required to hand it in?
Couldn’t they request documents / evidence though?
> [@arthur](#):
>
> Account for all dividends and declare the EOY portfolio and that is it, I thought.
Isn‘t that much more laborious though?
My IB account is literally one line in the tax declaration with the account balance and total of income.
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### Author:  [@rolandinho](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/rolandinho)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2021, 2:26pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/how-to-disclose-stocks-positions-to-tax-authorities/5522/9 "2021-02-03T14:26:23Z")
> [@San\_Francisco](#):
>
> My IB account is literally one line in the tax declaration with the account balance and total of income
Is that because you only have one position at IB like VT (or similar) ? Or are you summarising 10 different positions as “various stocks” and putting down total value & total dividends? What about buy/sell if on various dates etc?
If your one line works, I’m putting in **much** too much effort! 😬
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### Author:  [@San\_Francisco](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/San_Francisco)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2021, 2:34pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/how-to-disclose-stocks-positions-to-tax-authorities/5522/10 "2021-02-03T14:34:22Z")
> [@rolandinho](#):
>
> Is that because you only have one position at IB like VT (or similar)
Quite the contrary! I‘m doing it cause I’m too lazy to list all my positions manually.
I just create a new item (row) in the tax software, select „Steuerauszug/Depot“ (tax statement/securities account) and copy total balance and total income for the year?! That‘s it. Has been accepted for a couple of years.
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### Author:  [@LeStache](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/LeStache)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2021, 2:54pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/how-to-disclose-stocks-positions-to-tax-authorities/5522/11 "2021-02-03T14:54:51Z")
This tax discussion is way too rational for a GME thread and severely lacking in YOLOs. Can we move it to a suitable thread? I’m sure there’s one around somewhere.
P.S. My accountant listed all my shares as one EOY position with ”Diverse Aktien _name of broker_. I think the EOY positions were an attachment.
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### Author:  [@arthur](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/arthur)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2021, 3:21pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/how-to-disclose-stocks-positions-to-tax-authorities/5522/12 "2021-02-03T15:21:00Z")
Way too rational, you are right! 😂
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### Author:  [@Bojack](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Bojack)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2021, 3:37pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/how-to-disclose-stocks-positions-to-tax-authorities/5522/13 "2021-02-03T15:37:42Z")
I stopped reading this thread, have like 150 unread posts. Don’t tell me I have to now sift through it to find the ones to split? 😩
edit: thanks @Julianek
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### Author:  [@MUFC\_OK](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/MUFC_OK)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2021, 3:57pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/how-to-disclose-stocks-positions-to-tax-authorities/5522/14 "2021-02-03T15:57:43Z")
I filled in all stocks separatly and I am struggling to figure out how to put dividend (paid out quarterly, not held for all 4 quarters) 😃
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### Author:  [@San\_Francisco](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/San_Francisco)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2021, 4:18pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/how-to-disclose-stocks-positions-to-tax-authorities/5522/15 "2021-02-03T16:18:31Z")
Just enter the purchase and sale transactions (number of shares and date), and it will figure out the dividends automatically (from ICtax, as long as the stocks are listed)?!
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### Author:  [@MUFC\_OK](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/MUFC_OK)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2021, 4:27pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/how-to-disclose-stocks-positions-to-tax-authorities/5522/16 "2021-02-03T16:27:35Z")
I don‘t think this works with taxme.ch
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### Author:  [@rolandinho](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/rolandinho)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2021, 7:14pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/how-to-disclose-stocks-positions-to-tax-authorities/5522/17 "2021-02-03T19:14:51Z")
> [@San\_Francisco](#):
>
> I just create a new item (row) in the tax software, select „Steuerauszug/Depot“ (tax statement/securities account) and copy total balance and total income for the year?! That‘s it. Has been accepted for a couple of years.
Wow. That may be quite a game-changer for me, cos I’ve built up quite a few small positions recently. Thank you. Will try it out this tax declaration season! Sorry one more question - Are yours all US stocks, so **all** dividends have 15% WHT & go on DA-1? I have some Smithson ETFs @ IB, so that’d be separate as there wouldn’t be 15% WHT on that… although not sure now if Smithson pays a dividend at all 🤔
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### Author:  [@San\_Francisco](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/San_Francisco)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2021, 9:52pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/how-to-disclose-stocks-positions-to-tax-authorities/5522/18 "2021-02-03T21:52:27Z")
> [@rolandinho](#):
>
> Sorry one more question - Are yours all US stocks, so **all** dividends have 15% WHT & go on DA-1?
No, never been US-only.
I could do the same in DA-1 in my tax software, never tried that though.
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### Author:  [@Mobius](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/Mobius)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2021, 11:04pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/how-to-disclose-stocks-positions-to-tax-authorities/5522/19 "2021-02-03T23:04:50Z")
I’ve once asked this to the tax inspector who worked through my taxes the year before (crazy right? In Switzerland you can speak to the person who’s actually going over your tax declaration!).
The important thing is to list any position changes you’ve done during the tax year since that influences the dividends (income) you’ll have received. If you purchased an ETF in December and missed all dividends, you don’t want to be taxed for that. On the other hand, they don’t care about the dates of stock purchased in previous years, since you’ll have collected the full year of dividends anyway. In this case, you should consolidate them per ETF/stock.
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### Author:  [@San\_Francisco](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/u/San_Francisco)
#### Post date: [February 14, 2021, 9:25pm UTC](https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/how-to-disclose-stocks-positions-to-tax-authorities/5522/20 "2021-02-14T21:25:18Z")
> [@San\_Francisco](#):
>
> I just create a new item (row) in the tax software, select „Steuerauszug/Depot“ (tax statement/securities account) and copy total balance and total income for the year?! That‘s it. Has been accepted for a couple of years.
_ **Important** _ note: This works for _distributing_ ETFs (such as the VT and most if not all U.S.-domiciled ETFs).
For _ **accumulating ETFs** _, IBKR would not list the “virtual” taxable income according to ICTax, so one might risk underreporting - unless you adjust or report separately.
No new info really. But I just stumbled over it, since this year is the first I’m just copying the income values (due to having switched my base currency to CHF) and not calculating income manually. (I actually had one accumulating ETF but sold before the tax “payable” date in ICTax).
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