I also don’t like taking digital notes, just doesn’t feel right. A colleague from work suggested the onyx boox he claims it feels lilke using pen and paper, need to give it a try once.
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Yeah, I use pen and paper but are an exotic specimen in university classes. Somehow most people like their touchscreen laptops and surface books. 
I wish I could.
If you do simple web-browsing and note-taking, the iPad Air 4 is basically the same product - just 250 CHF less. I got one instead of a notebook. Mostly so I don’t have to carry physical books, to highlight PDF texts, surf the internet and draft texts (with an external keyboards).
…me neither.
For everything that goes beyond taking a few keywords, I don’t really like taking notes on a tablet device. And I’m saying that as someone as a heavy tablet user.
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I bought a touchscreen laptop maybe 5 years ago, because I thought wow this is so cool and I will be able to do so many things with it, after like 2 months I never used it again. It’s so useless, in my opinion, either get a laptop or a tablet nut not this convertible/2-in-1/hybrid whatever they call it crap.
Last year we got new notebooks from our company and guess what, they have a touchscreen as well. 13 inch, how the hell should I do any professional work apart from reading and answering mails on such a small screen. Not to mention that in the office we attach the notebook to a docking station with two screens.
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And it’s out.
Looks great as afar as I can tell, they got rid of the touchbar, added a lot more connectivity and a better M1 chip.
Not in the same price class as the smaller MacBooks:
The thing is you need a pencil (129.-) and maybe even the magic keyboard (319.-) to really take notes. So all in it’s around 1250.-. The keyboard is not stable enough to f.e. work on a train and have it on your lap.
I got a convertible Lenovo laptop. Yes it’s heavier and bigger. But, it’s a full fledged machine that runs Windows, with a Ryzen chip that can run Illustrator and Photoshop if need be and with the pen it was 750.-.
Maybe that was the case 5 years ago. But I feel like hybrids have come a long way. Although my girlfriend loved her surface laptop from several years ago. I have a Lenovo hybrid with a Ryzen chip good enough to run illustrator and photoshop and the pen, while not as good as my Samsung tablet (accuracy is same I’d say, but it doesn’t recognize the palm as well), is good enough to take notes and draw simple things in illustrator. And it cost 750 with the pen. I probably could’ve gotten an ever better experience if I had paid more.
I had a laptop with a touchscreen that wasn’t pen enabled several years ago and that was a waste of a feature, I agree.
why would you want a i7-4th gen? the current generation is 11th! decent lenovo laptops are really cheap currently. you can get Lenovo V15 Gen 2 (15.60 ", AMD Ryzen 5 5500U, 8 GB, 512 GB) - digitec. This is just an example. I wouldn’t get it just because it has only 8 GB RAM, but still, it’s a much more capable machine than the refurbished one.
I agree that they evolved, but for me it’s still not good enough to take notes. I recently got a myself a Galaxy Tab S7 with the Pen and it’s OK to take notes and comes closer to pen and paper than I expected, but it still doesn’t feel right for me and I’m not fast enough, I prefer keyboard or pen and paper. But as always, that’s just my preference.
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You can get a Logitech Crayon for less than half that. I got mine on sale for less than 50 Francs from a high street retailer.
I actually prefer it over Apple‘s Pencil since it works without pairing. And, crucially, with 1st gen and 2nd gen Pencil compatible devices, such as my 2019 iPad mini AND the latest models. Something that even Apple‘s own Pencils don’t.
There’s also even cheaper Chinese Pencil knock-offs, I believe, though I have no experience with them.
…or other, less expensive Bluetooth keyboards.
I am using Apple‘s own TKL Magic Keyboard (the ones sold with their Desktop computers), Mainly cause it happens to be one of the most lightweight Bluetooth keyboards optimised for Apple devices. Got mine for less than 90 Francs.
I prefer its full size layout (just like on a desktop Mac) over their somewhat cramped “for iPad” keyboards. And, like the Crayon, it’s not only less expensive but will probably last longer, since it won’t be obsoleted by any upgrading to a new tablet / form factor.
Pen: Absolutely you could, you’re right.
Keyboard: I assume you use it in a stationary setting, not for example while commuting since this is a rather large keyboard?
This wouldn’t work for my use case. If it works for you, that’s great. I’ve heard that an iPad is a very streamlined experience. I personally haven’t really used any Apple products since my iPod 5th or 6th gen. The whole eco-system is so expensive IMO but you pay for the convenience too. To each their own.
A decent table on a train or airplane would be “stationary” enough. But I hardly use it with the keyboard in such settings. The portrait orientation and touchscreen make it a good reading device though - as does the built-in 4G for web browsing.
It’s of course not well-suited to typing on your lap.
I’m using the one without the number pad. Weighs just 240 grams. Together with the iPad, it’s a smaller footprint than a notebook. A mouse (another 100g) would of course use a bit more space than a trackpad.
[Side Note: Why did I get notifications from the last two posts (from San_Franciso and S0974748) as if they replied to me. Some bug?]
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reviving the thread 
i need a new laptop for work/ private sooner than later. With black friday & Chrismas coming along, there should be some opportunities!
Any mustachian suggestions?
my must haves are
- Tunderbolt 4 / UBS-C plugs for big screen & USB hub connection
- >2 USB-A
- windows OS, preferrably 11 pro for native bitlocker etc
- 16 GB RAM
- 512 GB SSD
- no apple
nice-to-have:
- sim slot
- power via USB-C
- rather no dedicated graphics as i hardly use them, and they consume power
- 1920x1200 resolution
- smart card reader (big credit-card format typically for enterprise credentials)
- webcam
so far candidates i found are HP Elitebooks, for example 850 G8 starting at CHF 1200 on digitec
https://www.digitec.ch/search?filter=t_pt%3D6%2Cn_11280%3D16000000000_13|32000000000_13&q=HP%20EliteBook%20850%20G8&so=5
or CHF 700 at tutti
https://www.tutti.ch/de/vi/aargau/computer-zubehoer/computer/hp-elitebook-850-g8-16gb-ram-m-2-ssd-top-zustand/55799934
currently i got a Zbook from my employer which works great, but is currently in th CHF 2800 region at galaxus. I wont spend that much money
thanks for suggestions!
I got the HP Elitebook 840 G6. It has most of the features you want (even the nice to haves), and after 2y of heavy use it still looks like new. I would recommend this series for business use laptops.
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