Get higher returns on 2. pillar, employ yourself

[Helix]

Thank you for your input.

@TeaCup

Pulling money out of second pillar implies additional financial risk for all other risk pool participants - aka you and me. Therefore, its morally wrong to pull second pillar money out of the system. The situation is different with extra mandatory balances. Given that mandatory ones should technically suffice to sustain ones life (won‘t be a fun one though), I can somewhat understand people if they try to cash out extra mandatory balances. But everything else is both morally wrong and against the spirit of our pension system. Remember that the Common law legal systems and particularely the Swiss one are centered on Intend and Spirit and it was not all down to wordsmithed sentences that are to be interpreted black and white / where you can spot a wording loophole and based on such derive an entitlement.

We disagree on the intent of the second pillar and the morality in this instance.

@TeaCup

Talking about your plan: please consider that a one FTE LLC would only be allowed to join a collective fundation - meaning you couldnt set the interest rates yourself, you were part of a risk pool with other LLCs and you were back to square. Even if you had enough people for your own pension fund - such would still be subject to pension regulations… meaning that you in the first 5-10 years could likely only grant yourself a tiny interest as you had to build up fluctuation reserves, and this from Zero. Clearly, with low fluctuation reserves; you could as well only invest in low risk funds - I doubt that you could get any higher than 30% of shares. This at least until you had e.g. 25+ FTEs and 12.5%+ Fluctuation Reserves.

If the company has their own employee benefits unit the money stays in the unit or is paid out to its beneficiaries. I found multiple collective foundations providing this. At least some of them have minimum sizes. I didn’t find minimums for Gemini, but references to having less than some number.

Provider	Product	Employees	CHF
Gemini	Collective Foundation	? (<10)	? (<10m)
Noventus	Typ G	30	5m
Previs	Arbeitgeber Vorsorgewerke	50	–
Transparenta	–	?	?
Swisscanto	Flex individuell	10	–

You are right that I can’t set the interest directly. But the employee benefits committee can. They would be choosen by me (company and sole contributor).

Regarding reserves: As far as I understood the employer can add to them voluntarily.

@TeaCup

Particularely if you were in a pension fund with a high number of retirees - in times of increasing interest rates, the increase of discounting rates aka technical interest rates might turn pension fund money into a very lucrative Investment the next few years.

That was somwhere in the back of my head. Was it you who explained it first on this forum? I don’t understand this mechanism very well. I am not able to make a good prediction. I try to invest in things I understand well. Do you have some predictions with numbers?