Thanks for your inputs. I personally think that the impact for finance could be huge and I’m not speaking about a potential BTC/ETH/ ETF or the possibility to buy coins at your bank. I think the blockchain has the potential to change our use of finance and eliminates the middle man. I remember that one of our professors at the ETH showed us a slide with the industry margins plotted against the % of revenue that they use for innovation, which just showed that the finance industry does have huge profit margins with very little innovation (ok to be fair that slide was potentially to bring the pharma sector in a good light and justify the huge margins in pharma).
So my point was always that the finance industry does only take our money and lend it out without really adding any value for anybody except the banks, hence I hope that with the blockchain we will be able to decide what to do with the money and earn the profits without any intermediate body in between.
Another point which we already see right now is the use as money transfer. We have transferred several times stable coins from our wallets to some family members in Bolivia and Argentina. Specially the Argentineans did convert the stable coins quickly into other coins and can use them to pay for many expenses in the day to day activities. So let’s see once inflation hits us as well if we will not be all converting some of our unstable CHF into some crypto’s?
@Patron thanks for your inputs, I think that is all that a forum should be about to get different inputs from all sites. Beside that nothing is better than a good challenge of your view to make sure it’s still the right thing for me. I will try to provide my opinion on that.
As of now I trust anybody more than the banks , no honestly that is probably the part where I see the best use case (even more than store of value for BTC). With solutions like ETH (or others) we would build the backbone for any future financial task (borrowing, lending, etc.). There is no need to trust any counterpart as any holder of ETH can be seen as counterpart and all user have the goal to set up a stable system otherwise their tokens would be worthless.
How do they keep our money safe??? (Lehmann brothers, etc?) The part with the ATM is true, however I do not remember when I retire money from an ATM the last time (even in Bolivia, cards are now widely accepted). I’m not saying that one system should replace the other as cash will never go away. But it’s ridiculously to say that crypto is used only for criminals as 99.9% (just guessing no link) of the criminal activities are done in cash (remember to pay drugs and prostitutes always in cash ) For all other services such as lending, borrowing, mortgage, etc that can all be done on ETH at the end it’s just connecting borrowers and lenders together and let the market decide on a rate.
They tell you how to invest, no comment on that the first bank product that I got once I turned 18 was a UBS fond with a TER of 2.8%.
Agree for the creating job part, but as mentioned before in my opinion all these jobs do not create any value.
Also here solutions like ETH would work perfectly as the infrastructure is already here and the validators would receive part of the transaction fees to make the process reliable and stable. The part of the criminals is the same in the banking world. I guess that if an elder person withdraws 50’000 CHF and the bank has asked them if he/she knows the risk and hands it over to a scammer, no way that the bank pays for that. Same in crypto you’re money your responsibility, but for sure there will be services that would handle also the cryptos for you if you are not able to.
True TWINT is a cool service, but as some other user stated before, if something is free to you, you are the product. Do not belief that the data is not used to make profit out of it. Furthermore, I have family in many countries in the world, while TWINT is great for Switzerland how would I send the money over quick and cheap to Bolivia, Spain and the US?
The inflation part is of course true, however I think that would come with mass adaption once you start to think of your beer not more in CHF but in BTC.
Again thanks a lot for your interesting feedbacks looking forward to further discussions.
Will be interesting how they handle this technically, if they send the BTC to a wallet address provided by the shareholder etc. I really hope that this technology comes and that would not mean that we are able to buy cryptos from our bank accounts but to replace the accounts
In 2017-18 we went from $20k to $3.4k (-80%). An equivalent drop with the current ATH price would be around $12k. This was a fantastic buying opportunity back then, and today is the same. Good luck
…a means of escaping or protecting against inflation.
How do you even mentally reconcile that? My ass!
Oh really, is it!?!
Well, your beloved authoritarian bitcoin punk president down in San Salvador is ample evidence to the contrary.
How’s his people and businesses appreciating that “avoiding inflation”, after he recently forced them to accept Bitcoin - and it lost 50% of its worth over the last 11 weeks alone?
All this energy spent in trolling when you could use it to educate yourself on bitcoin before replying … Sad.
Typically, you could learn that no one is “forced” to use bitcoin in Salvador, most exchange are still in USD there and many people are not accepting it at all.
Or you would not mix-up your store of value with your daily spending. Store of value and censorship resistance are really simple use cases to understand.
By the way, funny that you quoted me about Turkey, guess who visited this country this week? I think this has aged beautifully things are moving fast, I hope you are following.
I could speak about on chain data and what it tells us, but you would just reply “it is a tulip!!!”, huh…
“The Bitcoin law, which came into force on Sept. 7, makes taxes payable in Bitcoin, obliges all businesses to accept it” (TIME)
“Enter the Bitcoin Law of June 8. Article 7 mandates that Salvadorans must accept bitcoin if offered. This is a standard feature of forced-tender laws” (Wall Street Journal)
“The new law stipulates that all businesses must accept Bitcoin as payment” (New York Times)
You’re more than welcome to be my guest and set the record straight, if all the news outlets have been lying then.
For the record: I’m neither surprised nor have I ever disputed that many people are ignoring or shunning the system whenever they can. But their options of doing so have been curtailed by the law foisting it upon them as legal tender.
How about we look at definitions of “store of value”?
“A store of value is an asset, commodity, or currency that maintains its value without depreciating” (Investopedia)
“A store of value is any commodity or asset that would normally retain purchasing power into the future” (Wikipedia)
Well, I put it to you: Something that loses 80% of its value in months or almost 50% in less than three months may retain, so store “some” value - but it’s a very bad store of value for consumers and businesses that need it at certain points in time. Especially if losing half of its value happens every three years or so.
Is that the same data that made you proclaim 63k, just shy of all-time highs, were still “cheap”?
Or that…
Was that based on deep looks into on-chain data as well?
I mean, what’s your time horizon for these analysis anyways? If it’s long enough, you’ll probably be inevitably right somewhen. Eventually.
Well, now go to article 12 of this law. Such dictatorship at least you are learning about El Salvador, that’s great. That’s weird that media are missing this point… Weird…
As for the store of value, what’s your time preference? Are you selling stock every time you go grocery shopping? Why shall I care about daily swing if I am not planning on selling?
I won’t copy the yearly lows to make my point, you have seen it already several times.
As for the on chain data: ATH hash rate, ATH users, almost all time low rsi… Time will tell, bitcoin will still be cheap when it hits $100k
It’s a “transitional” provision. Without preempting decisions by court, smartphone owners can’t claim to fall under that. Neither can users of electronic payment terminals. The law otherwise makes it very clear that there’s not choice than having to accept (see art. 7) and that the government will not only provide for means of acceptance but also oblige every business to do so:
"Every economic agent must accept bitcoin as payment when offered to him by whoever acquires a good or service"
Citing such transitional exceptions that in no way refute the main provisions of the law is just disingenuous, Oliv.
Even you yourself claimed that it’s - or could and will be - used as a currency.
As soon as you’re obliged to accept something for commercial and/or everyday transactions and debts, you do care about swings in value. You have to.
Side note: Does El Salvador disclose their Bitcoin transactions or reserves on taxpayer’s money?
And how are they reported, from a president that publicly claims to do the trading on his phone?
I would frankly be surprised if Bukele and his cronies did not siphon away some millions to their own coffers and pockets in the process.
Predictions are just speculation. It can go to 0 or to 1M,
I think investing between 5% and 10% of the net worth is not going to make you poor if it goes south, but it can make a difference if it goes 10X.
From technological point of view, if you understand what there is behind some cryptos (like ETH, SOL, FTM, ATOM, etc), it’s hard to just watch and not buy.
No one is forced, neither by law nor on the actual ground. Stop being dishonest.
What’s your time preference for you store of value? I am investing for the next decade, why shall I care by daily swings? Re-read the definitions you sent yourself, it is written “over time”, do you know how much btc has kept its value the last decade? It is a fantastic store of value.
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, no honestly that is probably the part where I see the best use case (even more than store of value for BTC). With solutions like ETH (or others) we would build the backbone for any future financial task (borrowing, lending, etc.). There is no need to trust any counterpart as any holder of ETH can be seen as counterpart and all user have the goal to set up a stable system otherwise their tokens would be worthless.
) For all other services such as lending, borrowing, mortgage, etc that can all be done on ETH at the end it’s just connecting borrowers and lenders together and let the market decide on a rate.
the first bank product that I got once I turned 18 was a UBS fond with a TER of 2.8%.
things are moving fast, I hope you are following.
