I currently work as a SE for a company A which then lend me to another company B. its like basic bodyleasing with the difference that company A only takes a cut of about max 10%. so at least 90% of the hourly rate goes into my wallet. now depending on the hourly rate the salary can get really high. which means my tax income also increases a lot and maybe will be around 60-70k for taxes alone.
now i thought about funding a company. Either Einzelfirma or Gmbh to payout a regular salary and then to reduce my income tax. So my company would then have a contract with company A and the rest stays the same. Company A takes out a cut but i would have more freedom with how i want to use the money for the retirnement pillar and so on.
But i read in the internet that if you only have 1 customer then your self employment will not be accepted by the gov → Scheinselbstständigkeit
does it also apply if i am employed by my own company or do you have any tricks and tips on how to avoid the situation so that my self employment will be accepted?
“Scheinselbstständigkeit” is not an issue if you create a GmbH. You are considered a normal employee (that is also the owner of the LLC). However, something to consider are the fees. The creation of the GmbH costs 1k - 2k, you have to do an accounting (which can also be relatively expensive if you outsource it), some brokers do not accept LLCs (and many charge more for them) and others charge more for them, etc…
If your yearly revenue is only ~80k (resulting in these values for the taxes), I am not sure if it is worth it. Especially if you consider being a normal employee in the future again (as liquidating an LLC is expensive and can take a long time). While you have more freedom regarding the money, this is often times only lucrative for higher revenue numbers. For instance, you need to pay yourself a salary in line with the market and some pension funds are not interested in one-man LLCs with relatively low salary numbers.
Ah ok that makes more sense, in that case I misinterpreted the “which means my tax income also increases a lot and maybe will be around 60-70k”. Already wondered why a SE contractor earns so little.
With that salary, things look different. Pension funds should happily accept you (I am an LLC owner with a salary >> 250k, never had problems) and the administrative overhead is also worth it. Especially if you live in a tax hell like Bern, where you have a lot of room for optimization with things like combining dividends and pension funds buy-ins (can be especially interesting for pillar 1e with no limits on the stock percentage).
Yeah i live in Bern. and thats why i think about founding. So you say its not an issue with “Scheinselbstständigkeit” if i found a GmbH but only have 1 client?
Can you provide guidance on how i do the founding? and what are the advantages then? like what optimizations can be done then or are you doing? would be very interested to hear ^^
Yes, LLC = GmbH. No, “Scheinselbständigkeit” is not an issue because you are not even considered self-employed legally if you are the owner of a GmbH. See for instance here:
Freelancer können durch Gründung einer GmbH oder AG ihre Situation dahingehend verbessern, dass die Selbständigkeit nicht gegenüber jedem Auftraggeber belegen müssen. Gründen sie eine Kapitalgesellschaft (AG oder GmbH), gelten sie im Sinne des Sozialversicherungsrechts als Arbeitnehmende/r dieser Gesellschaft. Aufträge werden anschliessend immer zwischen dem Kunden und der Gesellschaft vergeben.
The largest advantage is that you have more freedom. You can decide how much salary to receive, which pension fund plan to use (including pillar 1e), and how much dividends to pay out (which are taxed twice, but with a lower rate when paying them out). Personally, I have a pretty low salary (and invest the difference from my company accounts) with the intention to increase that in a few years to create the possibility for (large) pension fund buy-ins. I can then pay myself dividends (taxed at 50% & 70%) and use parts of it for buy-ins. If I renovate my apartment, I also pay myself dividends to use the large deduction of this year. I also gave some more tips here: Road to FI: Entrepreneur (32, F) - #10 by 0xLambda
But the optimal strategy heavily depends on your life circumstances and your canton. I live in a place where the highest marginal tax rate is “only” ~20%, so my ideal strategy may look quite different to someone in Bern.
LLCs in Switzerland tend to cost money even if they’re inactive.
That said, they’ll be worth the setup from way earlier than 200k (ymmv)
One great thread on this was here:
Maybe we should start a forum for those of us willing to start / currently running their own companies.
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