It’s also for a project in Vaud, maybe we have the same Seller…
I really don’t get why they use this type of sale, this is so restrictive and complicated.
In my contract, it is mentionned that: If either party fails to appear, is unable or refuses to perform after having been duly summoned, the other party shall have the option of :
- either renounce performance of the contract and demand payment of the 20% down payment as a contractual penalty, the amount being immediately due and payable without further notice other than notice of its determination given to the defaulting party.
Maybe if I ask the notary to add the fact that should the above happen, all the cash coming from the 3A must be then rewired back to VIAC. …Even though I suppose this wouldn’t work otherwise the notary would have suggested it…
I have asked the seller to accept that my 3A funds stays by the notary until the end of the construction (Notary suggested that). I will see if he accepts it.
Yes I used this process to purchase a flat. I also had issues transferring money from the 3A / 2nd pillar directly to the promoter, that’s when they suggested I used a bank who can setup a vested account to transfer the funds. When you buy a property that already exists it s certainly simpler but if you buy something based on a plan that’s not because the 3A / 2nd pillar institution needs to make sure that the funds come back to them if the project dies.
And how were you able to guarantee that? Was there anything in the contract that covered this point? Because even if I use your process, this doesn’t guarantee the money back to my 3A should the project die.
I’m not sure to understand. Let’s say the project dies because the seller fails to deliver. The contract that binds the seller and myself would be the notary contract, which has its own terms.
The contract that I did with the bank is just with me and the bank, correct? How will the bank take the responsability to get the funds back should there be any issue?
What a strange situation. Can’t recall something like that in the last couple of years. I see 2 options:
Transfer your VIAC assets to any major swiss bank with a 3rd pillar account where it’s possible to withdraw without a notice period (RB, Valiant and others let you wait for at least 1 month). Could be UBS, CS or something else. Then withdraw the 3rd pillar assets from there.
If it’s still a problem, then so be it. But you still don’t need to use more cash. Your financing bank will cover the gap because they know that the 3rd pillar assets will be used in the end.
That’s why I wrote that the same issues could arise with this solution. I was stuck for a month waiting for bâloise to release some funds and that s the only thing that worked. The notary did not want to get involved and bâloise only wanted to send the funds to an account in my name. Speaking to my bank they then said that it would be similar to handling a construction project and they could setup a vested account and issue a confirmation to bâloise that the funds would be used to pay the promoter. Try it, hopefully that also works for you.
Forward sale is more and more comon in Switzerland (ex. zone de développement in Geneva).
I guess 3A and pension funds providers didn’t/don’t want to update their procedures accordingly. Moreover, they have a strict reading of the laws and don’t want to be held accountable if something goes south. It’s an ambivalent situation between allowing someone to use his pension savings vs protecting him from bad decision/losing his pension. They infantilise us (at least, that’s my feelings).
When I contacted my pension fund for information, they didn’t start by “Congrats, we are happy for you and we will help you closing the deal” but with endless questions and paperworks. I got the feelings to rob the bank. An extra motivation to take this money out of the 2A
I will check with the Seller/Notary if I transfer the fund to another bank or if I use a vested account if this is still an issue. Will keep you updated.
When I contacted my 2A, they didn’t even want to go into details and said that they don’t do that kind of sales, only at the end of the process. So I will recontact them at the end should I want to withdraw some funds.
They can’t or don’t have to accommodate every whim of property developers and their business models - or buyers’ lack of liquid funds for downpayment or interim payments. And as supervised entities, they are also limited in their interpretation and leeway in applying the law. The Federal Social Insurance Office has issued guidelines for such advance withdrawals - and they are restrictive as long as the property’s ownership hasn’t been transferred.
They have compiled relevant case law and/or their own understanding and interpretation of the law in their Bulletins de la prévoyance professionnelle, stating for example (as I understand may apply to such forward sales):
„L’octroi d’un versement anticipé déjà au moment de la promesse de vente serait prématuré. En effet, tant que l’acte de vente n’est pas définitif, il n’est pas encore sûr que l’assuré deviendra propriétaire de son logement. Il s’agit donc d’éviter que le montant du versement anticipé diminue l’avoir de prévoyance de la personne assurée, alors qu’il n’y a pas encore eu acquisition du logement“
The regulations for pillar 2 and 3a obviously differ in some respects - but the latter often make reference to the former - explicit in law too, as you just showed. Pillar 3a obviously doesn’t have to be - and can’t be paid back after an early withdrawal. But I see like reason to diverge from that principle that it has to be paid to notary‘s account - and the notaries seem unwilling to do it over the desired timeframe (months if not years).
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