FlowBank, new Swiss Bank/Broker Solution?

Hello did anyone checked this? FlowBank

New Bank/Broker based in Geneva will start today!

I’ve seen a lot of advertisement from them and check their price for custody and ETF trading:

  • Custody fees 0.10%, min 40 CHF (+ VAT) Debited quarterly ; so CHF 160.- per year and then there is no maximum, so if you have 500’000 CHF, you will pay 500 CHF. At Swissquote or TradeDirect the maximum fees are 200 CHF or 100 CHF (+ VAT).

  • ETF commission on SIX is 0.10% but 20 CHF minimum, so if you spent between 1 to 20’000 CHF you will pay 20 CHF, and then it goes up.

  • ETF commission on NASDAQ/NYSE/BATS is 0.15% but 25$ minimum, so if you spent between 1 to 16’660$ you will pay 25$, and then it goes up.

At Swissquote, you can trade whatever amount you want and only paid 9 CHF on a selected ETF. Not sure they are competitive for normal customer, maybe for professionnal ?

On the other hand, if you want to buy for example VT, it will be cheaper with FlowBank: for 20’000$ of VT you will pay 30$, it will cost 80$ with Swissquote. This can be interesting if you trade 1-3x per year with a good lump sum.

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To my knowledge, they use Saxobank. Also, they have no track record at this point.
I would be extremely careful with this new bank due to the disastrous track record of London Capital Group, Flowbank is kind of a spin-off from this entity. I recommend to look on Google more info.

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On the website it’s written

Min CHF 40 custody fees per year

I don’t think it’s 160 CHF per year but 40 CHF.

Wait… They’ve changed it !

I’m sure to have read 40 CHF per quarter this morning… Maybe they’ve edited it during the day ?

Because I’ve copied and pasted what it was written in their factsheet about price. So they’ve changed it during the day.

Yes, the wording is quite strange.
On the pdf:

Globally, nothing exceptional compares to the current swiss brokers.

Yes, proof from Google cache;

“Min CHF 40 custody fees per quarter”

What if they read this forum and adjusted it :scream:

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Acc. to this the Saxo-CH pre-cursor (sold to Saxo in 2007) was founded by the guy who has now founded Flow. But more as a new project & a competitor to Saxo on the market.
He says “trading in CH must get cheaper, we want compete by being cheaper than the competition”, well let’s see.

To me, the fractional shares are the main differentiator from the competition and makes me think about opening an account with them.

But I think the prices would have to be lower to attract people from other brokers. The price list looks similar to other online brokers. For example, Swissquote has a flat commission of 9 CHF for ETFs.

In any case I am delighted to see a new Swiss broker on the market. Welcome, FlowBank! :slight_smile:

In principle, they could charge 0.1% a year with a CHF 40 minimum and still debit pro-rated quarterly.
Just saying…

At least I must have seen similar wording and meaning to that effect elsewhere - though I regard such fee schedule and billing as pretty confusing to the great majority of non-professionals.

Yes, almost all brokers bill custody fees quarterly so that it is always implicit in this context (I understood it as quarterly too, even without the precision), but it is useful for people new to finance to make it explicit.

That’s the very first example that occurred me.

Still… why would you want to invest in a fractional share of Lindt & Sprüngli, if you’re ineligible for their chocolate gift box dividend? That’s kinda the point of keeping a single share of them, isn’t it? :wink:

Dividing their minimum fixed commission by their commission rate gives a order volume of 15k to 20k. There aren’t that many stocks in the world that cost more.

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A lot of people in Switzerland have dreamed their whole life of investing in Lindt&Sprüngli and will be glad to pay 20 CHF :slight_smile: (but I’m not sure it gets you the yearly box of chocolate).

Yes, it’s true.
But they wanted to launch the new bank fast, so they currently use Saxo as a backend (insider info :slight_smile: ) and will move to their own solution in the future. Regarding the pricing, they are not competitive at this point. At least, Swissquote offers really good phone support.

Not all of them…

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As a buy and hold investor, I don’t mind paying up to 2% of commission for something I intend to keep for years or even decades. If I directly own stocks for 20 years that I bought with 2% commission, it’s like holding it in an ETF with a TER of 0.1% (actually even less than that, considering growth) and that’s fine with me :slight_smile:

It brings down the number down to 1000 CHF for me for when I find it worth it to pay 20 CHF of commission.

In fact, as I said in another thread, these commissions have a positive impact on my investment style because it is an additional barrier to selling and it forces me to carefully think about every single transaction I make.

Question is though: Are you going to hold it the same bank?
Flowbank was literally founded last year (and an outgoing transfer of positions costs 45 CHF).

I do agree however on that one shouldn’t worry too much about small one-time fees on long-term investments.

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