Anyone checked the FZK solution from Viac? It’s basically identical to the 3rd pillar with the same funds and limitations.
BUT: max. 80% in stocks for the mandatory part, 97% for the rest.
Sorry Viac, but ValuePension is the real deal here. No FX fees, 99% stocks, no limit on fund selection, no CHF minimum. Can’t wait for the 3rd pillar!
I have today asked Viac about what sets them apart from their competitor ValuePension and here are their answers:
VIAC pays interest on the part in cash. In addition, there is no charge on cash - so there is no negative interest. This means that strategies that are only partially invested become much cheaper at VIAC.
We do not invest in bonds with negative returns. The remunerated account with us takes its place.
We also deliberately refrain from hedging currency risks, as we believe that in the long run, the costs of hedging are higher than the benefits.
Last but not least, we think our cockpit is very clear. It is also important for us that everything is developed in Switzerland and that all the data is hosted in Switzerland. We do not know if this is also the case for other providers.
Basically no arguments for Viac if you are going to invest in stocks. Thanks for asking.
In order to benefit from tax savings for a staggered collection, and share the risks (for example in the event of the bankruptcy of one of the depositaries, especially in those days), would it not be interesting to split into 2 separate accounts, one at ValuePension and the other at Viac or another Foundation? What’s your take on this?
…by the way, yes I should be completely invested in stocks.
As other alternatives to the ValuePension and Viac digital solutions, I did some research and I see that there are 2 other platforms for vested benefits in Switzerland, namely Descartes Finance and Platform Saüle Schweiz (PSS). Has anyone ever experienced them or been able to compare them?
Thanks for sharing these platforms.
Descartes Finance is more expensive (0,65% - 0,80% ). Also they are not transparent, very few info on the product and fees on their home page.
Platform Saüle Schwei seems quite new. Everything is in German. More expensive (0.65%).
I don’t really understand the whole concept, but they seems to offer a unified a solution for pillar 2, pillar 3 and non-pillar.
I find the Valuepension solution quite perfect. The only thing they could do even better is to reduce the cost (which is already the cheapest on the market with 100% stocks).
@shack are you looking for a specific feature ?
Totally agree. Lets assume their 3rd pillar solution is identical, so 99% stocks with 0.49% TER and no limitations on fund and currency exposure. Lets assume that the longterm expexted return on stocks is 6%/year.
99% vs. 97% (VIAC) gives you 0.12%/year higher returns.
99% vs. 95% (Frankly) gives you 0.24%/year higher returns.
So even if others start to offer even lower TERs, VP will still offer the highest return. Plus we don’t waste any money on currency hedging or FX fees.
I agree with the analysis but to clarify:
Frankly invest 95% in stock, 2.5% in gold and 2.5% in real estate. The return of gold is low, but the real estate would provide some returns. In any case, the hedging and the lack of flexibility are a major drawbacks
Well that’s true. For me the most important factor is flexibility. VP lets you rebuild VT with 1% cash, 10% EM and 89% World. Without currency hedging and without monthly rebalancing. Or any other allocation you are aiming for. That’s just a huge plus compared to Viac, Frankly etc.
Just a small note: The fees of valuepension of 0.49% are without TVA. I got confirmation from valuepension that this fee is actually 0.53% with TVA (0.5277 to be precise).
It won’t make a big difference, but better to be precise.
Are you sure that this isn’t the case for the others?
For VIAC and Frankly, you mean? No, I am not sure, but I will ask VIAC at least.
Edit: Asked VIAC, will let you know the answer.
Asked too, Christian says that there is no additional MwSt. Hmmm.
I got the same answer and I asked for details and I got this:
Correct. En effet, nous avons pu obtenir pour nos clients que les frais administratifs soient exonérés de la TVA (puisqu’il s’agit de frais de la fondation de prévoyance fiscalement privilégiée).
Basically, they are exempted from TVA. Maybe valuepension will do the same in the future.
So slightly more expensive, but 99% instead of 97% stocks makes it still more interesting.
I hate hidden fees! Spreads, transaction fee, FX fee, MwSt…
Complete agree with you. And the person at valuepension that I talked to mentioned that they will try to improve that on the website.
And I also agree with you that the valuepension offer is currently better.
Well yeah you could add that too. But it will probably make a small difference.
Just for sharing, I got another contact with valuepension about the TVA. The reason they have to pay TVA is because of the way they segregate assets. Assets are held by the valuepension foundation, but are managed by finpension. Since finpension is not a pension foundation, TVA is due for their services. But this has the advantage that if finpension fails, assets are safe and the foundation will just have to find new people to manage the assets.
So today my funds got transfered to ValuePension.
I can either wait for July 1st or call and let them invest it the next day for a 20 CHF fee. Any advice?
Edit: I just called, it’s 20 CHF per transaction, so 80 CHF for me with 18k assets. Hmmm.
I have so much FOMO right now lol.
80 CHF on 17.9k for 24 days is like 6.5% annual interest rate 
But I feel like the SP500 will already hit a new ATH by the end of this month.