VIAC is up to 97%, does it make a meaningful difference?
regulations afaik it’s mandated to have some amount of CH and CHF exposure, are you sure valuepension let’s you do it? (their 99% fund has 40% CH, and 20% hedged, maybe they didn’t implement the right checks on custom portfolios?)
7.00% x 0.97 = 6.79%
7.00% x 0.99 = 6.93% (+0.14%)
Combined with slightly lower TER it will make a ~10k difference in 25 years (assuming we are talking about 3a). It’s something 
I tried my own strategy today and it let me chose 99% MSCI World. But I’m not sure if it really works. I’m going to ask them on Friday.
Pretty sure the 40% chf rule is for 3a so they will have to follow it with a 3a product as well
Aren’t the rules the same? 2nd and 3rd pillar.
On my knowledge, the law has never specify a max foreign amount.
I asked them. I can confirm the limit is 99%, no stock or foreign currency limit. Their simulator is correct.
Well then, I’ll decide on Tuesday where to go.
There is a maximum limit of 30% foreign currencies and 50% in equities stated in art. 55 of bvv2/opp2. As far as I understood it does not apply to individual accounts. I guess the pension provider has to fit within this maximum over all investments? What happens then if all their customers choose 99% msci world?
That’s true and also the reason why 4 years ago there were suddenly solutions with >50% stocks. Usually you don’t run into any problems if enough account holders are just in cash. If you look at the 3rd pillar accounts of Swiss banks, you usually see that 80-90% of it is in cash. That’s also why VIAC is working with the WIR Vorsorgestiftung, most of their accounts are in cash.
I’m not sure how Valuepension is doing it though. Their client base is probably invested highly in stocks. Going to ask them tomorrow.
It’s only a recommendation. Check article 50 al. 4 which gives the possibility to go beyond the recommendation
“If the pension fund proves conclusively in the notes to the annual financial statements that it complies with paragraphs 1 to 3, it may, if its regulations so provide, extend the investment options provided for in Art. 53, paragraphs 1 to 4, 54, 54a, 54b, paragraph 1, 55, 56, 56a, paragraphs 1 and 5, and 57, paragraphs 2 and 3.4 Investments subject to the obligation to make additional contributions are prohibited. Investments in accordance with Art. 53 Para. 5 lit. c.5 are excepted.”
Also read, their regulations https://www.valuepension.ch/customers/foundationdocuments/Investment-Regulations.pdf
OK I see, it is getting more complicated. Then I am wondering what are the actual implications of complying to paragraphs 1-3 
Then I am wondering what are the actual implications of complying to paragraphs 1-3
"1 The pension fund must carefully select, manage and monitor the investments it makes.
2 When investing its assets, it must ensure that the pension fund’s pension goals are securely achieved. The security must be assessed in particular by taking into account all assets and liabilities, as well as the structure and foreseeable future development of the insured persons’ workforce.
3 When investing its assets, the pension fund must comply with the principle of appropriate risk diversification; in particular, the liquid assets must be distributed among different investment categories and among different regions and economic sectors."
My personal view:
What about 3a?
Article 5 of the Verordnung über die steuerliche Abzugsberechtigung für Beiträge an anerkannte Vorsorgeformen (BVV 3)
“Articles 49-58 of the Ordinance of 18 April 1984 on Occupational Retirement, Survivors’ and Disability Pension Plans (BVV 2) shall apply mutatis mutandis to the investment of the funds of the tied pension agreement in the case of securities savings. Notwithstanding the above, it is possible to invest entirely in a capital-preserving product or a bond with a good credit rating.”
Based on my quick analysis, 3a provider could offer the same products as pillar 2.
I just had a 30min phone call with the CEO Beat Bühlmann. Holy cow, this is the next big thing! They will launch 3a in Sept/Oct. Just to recap:
As the SMI indexfund is very top heavy (Novartis, Roche, Nestle accounting for 60%), you can’t set the SMI to 99% in Valuepension due to concentration risk.
@TeaCup
Thank you again for mentioning them! I just sent the transfer letter for my 2nd pillar money that is waiting at WIR. So no Viac for me. I’ll probably move my 3rd pillar aswell as soon as they launch it.
this all sounds awesome. can’t wait for my FZK funds grow in VT style
Yeah it’s pretty awesome! You can set it to 1% cash, 3% CH, 86% MSCI World ex CH and 10% MSCI EM. VT without CHF hedging
What’s also awesome is the custom rebalancing setting. You can set the rebalancing bands to 1-100%, 100% meaning no rebalancing at all. So that way you avoid additional rebalancing costs and in our case it’s the right thing to do anyway. We don’t want fixed regions, we want market cap weight, so no rebalancing needed. I was also pretty amazed that he told me that I can get additional index funds on request without additional costs. You just get in on the selection list, just for you 
Most of their clients are expats that leave their 2nd pillar in Switzerland.
Any update on your job situation? Earlier this year you talked about changing jobs.
I asked about early beta access to 3rd pillar Value Pension. CEO told me that they are going to start in a small circle next week, but he’ll invite me as soon as he needs more people to test it.
Yeah, started a new job in February 2020 and didn’t transfer my pension funds to the new employer They didn’t ask yet and probably won’t. And even when… I won’t send them my PK funds when I have the opportunity to outperform their PK (there is downside risk as well, clearly). Right now, it’s on a freizügigkeits bank account.
The main benefit I see in valuepension are the similar conditions to the 401k system in the US.
Yeah totally reminded me of 401k aswell! Any reasons why you didn’t already transfer it to invest it? Been waiting for VIAC?
