FI working in International Organization

Hi Strabor,

Yes, of course it’s done. In fact is the International Organisation that do that for us… If I check in the official register in Geneva (where I live) I find perfectly my official address, phone number, etc. In the tax reports,etc, nothing.

We MUST announce our residential address changes to the OI and them change it in the official registers in Switzerland.

I tried “fulfilling” an online tax report :wink: Just to “start” the wheel… and the system don’t let me do it…haha,.

Cheers.
Tino.

Interesting. Do you want to share which organisation you are working for?

Hi, yes, no problem. The CERN. http://cern.ch

Well, I fail to see how this is relevant.

His status is the case for most people who work for international organisations. No taxes paid in Switzerland, no right to benefits either. Since there is no permit, there is no right to citizenship either, regardless of the time spent in Switzerland. Another example: pension plans are private by necessity.

This can be very interesting if you play it well.

What I really would like to know is how this works regarding international taxes. The “double taxation” agreements do not apply because there is no double taxation, just the foreign one. But! One can claim taxes back if they’re not due for non-residents of that country.

Well, maybe not relevant but very interesting. I had no idea that CERN staff had that status too.

So I stand corrected.

Hi Ed,

Just to everybody… we have special rights, it’s true, but since I’ve been working for the Swiss industry, I can tell you that the conditions are “normal” for the same post in same industry… I mean, probably we don’t pay taxes for the salary incoming or cars, but we pay all the rest and when you check salaries…well… we are below the same post/qualification in Switzerland.

Said that, about your question of taxes, etc… We cannot get any tax back because we cannot proof all what I told you because they are really small cases, not too well documented, etc. I.e. in https://www.ge.ch/impot-fonctionnaires-internationaux/particularites-fiscales you can check the particularities for EACH OI!!! It’s crazy! Where do you work, are you Swiss or not… are you married with a Swiss…etc…etc… And…all in French!!!

All the official treats are coming from 1920, 1969, etc… very old, old treats that have been updated more or less…

Complex problem… really…

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Well. You actually can get a Swiss permit, if you resign from your CdL.
In this case, your stay counts towards nationality, you get the Permit B (and later C), you get the tax number.

What is the cost: Your salary becomes taxed as any other person living in CH :slight_smile:

I don’t know the details, but I have friends that did it - exactly to have the years spent here counted towards Permit C, and nationality.

CERN tax status is quite good.
Especially if you live on the French side of the border…

Apart from no taxes on salaries, there is a tax free allowance (every two years) of:

  • one car
  • one plane
  • one boat

:smiley:

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Interesting and, as I can imagine, complicated (and complating) stuff.

What about health insurance? Do you have a Swiss health insurance? (And if yes, is the AVS no. field blank on your insurance card?)

Yes Karol but don’t forget… the car/boat are not in “standard” plates! Even in Geneva, you cannot sell to somebody that doesn’t have the same rights… if you want to sell it you have to pay the TVA or wait (I don’t remember how long) to pass the car to standard one and selling… So, for personal use it’s OK

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We don’t have a “standard” insurance. We have a very good one but private. In fact, that is another thing … When you go to the hospital and there is somebody that doesn’t know very well the system…another suspicious face… Like thinking if you are going to pay or not :wink:

We pay a private insurance and we must pay always in advance meds, doctors, etc. Later we claim to the insurance to be paid.

So, answering to your question, no, no health insurance like the 99.9 % of Swiss population and no AVS on it.

My son, since his mother is Swiss got a AVS number. We don’t pay the LaMAL because is my son (son of a FI) but he’s covered by my insurance.

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Hello,

but please keep in mind that if your wife works, the gain is not only about your taxes not being paid, but also partially hers, as the % you need to pay is calculated just on the basis of one income, not two. At least in France, not sure about Switzerland, but it’s probably the same.

Plus you have 75% reimbursement of education (creche, kindergarten, international schools, language lessons) costs, for people hired before 2008 (I think) also for lunches at school etc. Plus some indemnities like home leave, additional travel, international indemnity, children younger than 3 years old, older than 3 years old, wife…

For those interested - most IT jobs are posted with grade 6-7. If you look at https://careers.cern/salary-conditions-and-career-progression you can see:

Basic minimum entry level-salary (CHF per month) for grade 6 8636 CHF, for 7 10277 CHF.

Hi, I don’t know, I’m not married. just, don’t believe all what they put in the publicity… Lots, but lots of people have less than the figures you read.
I would like to go back to my main question if somebody has a clue… Please :wink: If you like, we could open another post about FI, CERN, UN benefits, how to apply, etc…etc… I would be very glad to help anybody with any question but for the moment, my main concern and the post opening was about AVS number, + FI + IB broker…

Cheers.

Tino.

Hello again,

unfortunately I’m not able to help you with original topic. As regards the numbers and benefits I provided - believe me - they are right, but only for so-called staff contracts. Numbers for different type of contracts (e.g. Students or Fellows) are also listed on the page.

Personally, what I would be hesitant about is giving the broker a „wrong“ TIN - or making stuff up like giving a foreign one. That sounds like a „quick fix“ but might bring up issues or consequences later.

The brokers will be able to look up the expected number format for countries (and in many countries it is not the social security number) and be able to notice that it does not match the country of residence as stated by the customer.

As far as I know (and I have at least skimmed through them, the OECD AEOI) framework does provide for situations where the holder of a reportable account does not have and cannot provide a TIN - and the reporting entity has to be able to state the reason for that.

I have had to explain this it to a European bank of mine, at the time when Switzerland hadn‘t formally defined a TIN (for natural persons) for AEOI purposes. They kept pressing me about it though, even inquiring my VAT no. - which made no sense, because as a natural person I didn‘t have one. In the end, it was resolved by „provisionally“ giving them my AVS number, after I had found out that Switzerland was about use that (though the law wasn‘t in force back then, so legally I still had none).

Basically, even though it was a fairly international bank, they didn‘t quite know what to do and how to handle that.
In the case of you people without Swiss TIN, despite being resident in Switzerland, I would maybe try to explain the situation to them, clearly pointing them to the legal grounds (not being insured by Swiss AVS/AHV on which legal basis, due to working for international orgnization) and maybe provide documentation of having asked the local tax office (or their answer in writing).

Still, the looming question may be what they‘re going to do with it. Accept it for what it is?

I would expect: the more knowledgable the person handling your case is about international taxation, tax laws and AEOI process, the more likely they are going to accept that „exception“ from the rule („every customer has to provide TIN“) and internal documentation („customer has to be able to do so, if it‘s in our internal documentation“). The less, the more likely they are going to throw you out.

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Thanks. Is what I thought… I have a “number” that was given by the tax system that is in my “Geneva e-demarches” place that is something like R10.XXX.XXX that apparently is like the register number in the system… not a AVS number but a kind of identification.

I have the “official” answer with a number about my tax situation and why they cannot deliver one number, even if I asked to pay taxes on my investments. The only problem is that in the AEOI site and official documentation they say that everybody living legally in Switzerland with a work in Switzerland has a AVS number what is not true at all… My example, 20 years in the region and I don’t have it :wink:

Thank you for your comments.

Tino.

Well… I answer to myself and for other FI that could read this.
After some emails, calls, etc, I discover that we have a TIN in Switzerland !!!
Nice, nice… The oficial answer came from the BSV https://www.bsv.admin.ch/bsv/en/home.html The told me that FI have a TIN. Has to be request by the IO to the central register. Now, I have a TIN and I can declare the accounts all around!!

Thank you for the answer and comments.

Regards.

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Maybe edit the top post with the answer, might help future readers (so they don’t have to go through the whole thread).

You right, thank you. I did in my post.
Cheers.

It’s difficult to get a normal contract (Staff) at CERN. Most people work on temporary contracts. It’s even hard to get a Fellow contract. I have worked as Project Associate and my salary was about 4k net (as far as I know for student it’s 3k). It basically doubled once I moved to Zug.