Estate tax treaty US-Switzerland [2024]

I would recommend calling them as well. 0415620902. No need to wait long, they will call back.

There are too many variations of everyone’s situation, citizenship, residency status, language to cover it all here. So ask them specifically about your situation.

Yeah but sometimes you also get different answer from customer support depending on who you ask.

(remember during the big worry about US ETF access?)

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It is not explicitly stated which entity he communicated with. I imagine he did so via support while being directly logged into his IB account. In that case, I don’t think he communicated directly with IB CH support. The simplest solution would be for him to explain how he proceeded @thepoorswiss ?
Edit : it seems that he has left the forum…

At the end of the day, the employees at IB CH handling an estate processing case, will follow their own guidelines. If they don’t ask for any certificates from the US IRS. Then I don’t think anyone should worry about US tax.

Although likely not 100% the same for the Swiss situation, let me share with you my information from the Dutch point of view, as we also have an estate treaty with the U.S. I had an email exchange with someone from the estate department at IBKR and his written answers are quite interesting. Here I will copy the most relevant parts:

US assets-US situs for Dutch residents

Non-US resident, non-US citizens who owned more than $60,000 USD in US-located assets on their date of death may have estate-tax obligations to the US Internal Revenue Service. US-located assets may include, among other assets, real estate or other tangible assets located in the United States. See this link for more information https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/transfer-certificate-filing-requirements-for-the-estates-of-nonresidents-not-citizens-of-the-united-states.

Please be advised that Interactive Brokers does not provide tax advice. The responsible person or persons for the estate and heirs are ultimately responsible for determining tax obligations, if any, under U.S. Law. We urge you to seek professional tax advice.

Unless the court of a US state has designated an executor to administer the estate of the deceased, Interactive Brokers cannot disburse any such US assets (or proceeds from their sale) until we receive EITHER:

(a) a letter affirming that on date of death, the deceased owned less than $60,000 in US-located assets , the letter does not need to be notarized, OR

(b) Option one

Because assets in the account exceed $60,000, we can disperse upon receipt of a Transfer Certificate issued by the U.S. IRS. We understand the IRS is backlogged and currently taking 2-3 years to issue certificates after receiving a 706-NA return. See https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f706na.pdf

(b) Option two

If, based on professional tax advice, you determine a full 706-NA is not necessary and no estate tax is due under the US-Netherlands estate tax treaty (NETHERLANDS ESTATE TAX TREATY) (and that the treaty is still valid and in force) because the US stocks in the account are not taxable by the U.S. under the terms of the treaty, then IB can disperse assets upon receipt of the following:

  1. IRS Form 706-NA completed as per the requirement described below
  2. IRS Form 8833
  3. an email from the executor/heir or other signatory on the forms stating that these forms have been filed with the IRS.

My interpretation:

  • No direct dealing with the IRS necessary for Dutch heirs under the estate tax treaty: The reply suggests that if the U.S.-Netherlands estate tax treaty is in force and applicable (which it is for now), and if the U.S. assets in question are not taxable under the treaty, then Dutch heirs may not have to deal directly with the IRS for U.S. estate tax purposes. This would be the case as long as the necessary forms (Form 706-NA and Form 8833) are sent to the IRS.
  • Only in certain cases (i.e., if there is ambiguity about the tax obligation), a Transfer Certificate or further IRS involvement may be needed. The estate’s professional tax advisor would need to confirm whether U.S. estate tax applies or whether the treaty is applicable to avoid it.

Summing up, a Transfer Certificate from the IRS is not necessary. But there is a need for a latter from a professional tax advisor confirming that the treaty is applicable and there is no US estate tax due.

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That’s matches exactly what thepoorswiss had in writing.

How these certificates get exemption from IRS ?
These only help to get access to funds

But there is still a need to close the loop with IRS. I hope IBKR is not suggesting to ignore IRS altogether

Wasn’t the post prefixed with “US tax not involved”? :face_with_monocle:

Yeah but it didn’t explain why US tax is not involved.
If there is an estate tax treaty then someone needs to do the paperwork to absolve them from any claim in future

I find it a bit weird that in CH, the advice is always to ensure that tax procedures are followed properly.

But just because IBKR customer care mentioned certain documents are needed to redeem funds, somehow there is an assumption that IRS does not need any forms to be submitted.

Why are we equating the access to funds with redemption from IRS? They are not same things . Right?

A few things
“Just someone at IB customer care”
You can be sure that IB will not run any risk to upset the US IRS. So if they say it’s not necessary, maybe it really isn’t?!

I do get my CH taxes very correct. I pay a lot of taxes. I live here. Happy to pay my share.

Wrt to US taxes. I don’t live there. Why should I contribute to their tax collection, ESPECIALLY if it’s still totally unclear and complicated.

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I am not saying you are doing anything wrong. I just asked if IB was talking about

  • Access to funds by heir OR
  • No need to do anything for IRS (as they typically say “we do not provide tax advice”).
  • Both

And if heir does not need to deal with IRS, then who will do that?
IB or No one?

No worries, I didn’t think that you said anything wrong with what I’m doing.

I can only repeat. I asked what my wife would have to do in case of my death. I.e. Provide the 3 documents mentioned above, then liquidate account or open IB account for wife and transfer shares.

I asked if CH resident is exposed to US inheritance tax. The answer was no. I liked the guy on the call. Didn’t give those standard “we don’t give tax advice” answer

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Thanks

Might be worth asking them in writing if you want to be sure.

(Since we have two other examples where IB said (wrote?) they won’t wait for the full process to finish, but you need to show you have filed the papers)

Who will write this email when the two forms, in fact, have not been filed with the IRS?

I’m not sure a Swiss lawyer/notary will do that.

And if your spouse does it, are they sure they’ll never end up in U.S. jurisdiction? Like a holiday or stopping at an airport between connecting flights?

The forms should be indeed sent to the IRS. I don’t see any problem with that, right? You don’t need to wait for the transfer certificate from the IRS, that’s a huge difference!

Oh, I misunderstood. I wouldn’t call submitting the forms to the IRS, expecting to have to answer their questions later not have to deal directly with the IRS. :wink:

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Strictly speaking, you are right. But your heirs will not get questions from the IRS. If the estate treaty is in place, your total heritage is less than the threshold of 10+ mln, and the forms are filled in correctly

I’ve just checked with some tax consultants, the price is a few thousand. Of course, if you become seriously ill, it’s best to dump US assets, but for the chances of sudden death (very small), the risk doesn’t seem disproportionate.

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Sorry, maybe stupid question: Did you explicitly ask for US situs assets, like ETFs with a ISIN starting with US…, like VT?

I asked for US assets.

But look guys and gals, why don’t some of you also call IB. 0415620902. Swiss number. It’s easy as you have the choice to keep your queue number and they will call you back. Was all done in 5 minutes for me.

Then at least we would have answers from different IB employees ideally in different languages etc. The more the merrier and at some point they would probably clarify publicly

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