Early Withdrawal Third Pillar


#1

Hi everyone

Now that the Third Pillar (3a) becomes more attractive with solutions like VIAC, I wonder how to withdraw the money early.
Because I don’t know if I want to buy a home, a sure way to withdraw the funds would be to just register a business for this purpose and declare self-employement.
Has anyone experiences with this approach or can tell me if this is a viable plan?
Thank you!


#2

Leave the country for a while and come back later (or never), you can take it all cash

But frankly not sure why even bother, it’s not like you can stash a fortune into 3a and with dividend tax savings you’re probably about breakeven with VIAC’s fees


#3

Self-employed: you need to be registered as such at the social security offices. They want a business plan, contracts, lists of your clients, proof of payments etc.

Emigration: Methinks (not 100% sure!) you would have to leave EU/EFTA jurisdiction. So: Canada, Australia, Venezuela, Russia, Syria (you get my drift). Proof of presence in the new country is needed.

The “easiest” and probably most profitable way I can see to get the money out would be to leave the money on a 3a bank account and to close the account every 5 years. The money can be taken out for paying off your mortgage. This should result in nice tax savings.

Of course, you need to live in your own home first…


#4

Yes you’re wrong, you can cash out 100% of 3a and most of pillar 2 no matter where you going. Destination country matters for whether you can withdraw mandatory (BVG) portion of pillar 2. And your passport (not destination) matters as to whether you can forfeit your future pillar 1 (AHV) pension and get some cash right now instead, albeit it ain’t much unless you’re 50+, compensation is limited to NPV of future pension with 3% discounting.


#5

This is indeed correct - the countries do not matter with 3a. I should have verified before. Thank you for correcting the record.

Wow. Never heard of that one. Interesting. Would you please provide a citation or link for this?


#6

#7

Actually it seems they’ve changed the rate from 3% to 1.5% very recently - https://www.bsvlive.admin.ch/vollzug/documents/view/4073/lang:deu/category:23


#8

I left country and moved to Singapore for an extended period of time. Singapore does not tax capital payouts and has a double tax treaty with Switzerland. If you have it paid out, you’ll be taxed at first but you’ll get the tax paid back if declared correctly.


#9

Thank you for this document. I always thought that AHV contributions were basically robbed from people leaving the country. This seems not to be (completely) the case.

Blockquote
Nachstehende Tabellen und Erläuterungen dienen der Ermittlung der in den Sozialversicherungsabkommen vorgesehenen Rentenabfindungen sowie zur Vergleichsrechnung bei Beitragsrückvergütungen für Staatenlose und Bürger von Staaten, mit denen die Schweiz kein solches Abkommen besitzt. Grundlage zur Berechnung solcher Abfindungen bilden die Barwerte und Grundzahlen in Kapitel 4 dieser Dokumentation. Die gesuchten Abfindungen lassen sich als Linearkombinationen der Rentenhöhen bestimmen, die bei ordentlicher Rentenauszahlung ausbezahlt würden. Als Koeffizienten werden die entsprechenden Barwerte herangezogen. Damit werden Rentenveränderungen als Folge von Zivilstandsänderungen oder Wechsel von der IV zur AHV mitberücksichtigt.
Blockquote


#10

They are robbed out of people! Only first 84600 Fr of your yearly salary goes towards building out your pension benefit which determines how much you get paid back. The rest is just an f’ing tax to sponsor the current retirees with no benefit for you


#11

Oh, there is much more tax money than that used trying to stabilize the old-age insurance of an aging population while avoiding immigration (of younger cohortae)…


#12

Thank you for your input.
Does that mean the tax savings from 3a are not worth the extra fees you would have to pay?


#13

Yearly savings from not having to pay taxes on dividends in 3a are about breakeven with VIAC fees, depending on your income level, so for these savings alone it’s not worth the trouble. But it’s better than other providers where you would constantly lose some money to even higher fees and misallocation. However you also get to save taxes when you put the money in the first time, this makes it worth your while even if it’s invested in a frigging 0% savings account instead of stocks, at least in the short term.


#14

Saw this article about withdrawal / optimizing taxes when movin abroad today:


#15

haha besides the useful tip the standard recommendaition: “go get advised by your bank and probably ripped off” :smiley:


#16

I think the hint of moving the ca$h to a 3a company in a canton with low Quellensteuer might save someone a couple of francs


#17

if you’re relocating to a good country with CH treaty and that doesn’t tax pension payout this whole exercise of switching cantons is pointless and only potentially will cost you money, yes there’ll be some tax but if you withdraw after relocation you get it all back and have to worry about your new country’s tax man instead


#18

Do you have a good list to share?


#19

No. Singapore was already mentioned above. Thailand another one i know.

US is the exact opposite from what i hear, not only will they not sign anything for swiss tax authorities to refund you the withholding, but will actually try to tax your whole payout as income(!)