@noirmont Thank you for pointing out the differences between TRNC and Turkey. TRNC clearly lacks the sophistication of Turkey.
@Anna have you consider writing about your situation? In a blog (your own), to discuss this topic? Iâm sure there is a large interested audience for it, and you could help monetize it a bit?
Just a food for thought on optionsâŠ
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Went down a rabbit hole and found this thread.
So much of it resonates with me - both because I run into the same issues (by the way, if you are open to work for a lower $$$ despite all the experience/capability you bring⊠the typical response is: aha, but then youâll leave for something else in 6-12 months)⊠and because it confirms the importance to work towards FIRE as early as possible in life. I got there (thankfully) and also benefit from having a much younger wife who works.
Anyway, hope @Anna is doing well. And I hope your Geneva flat is owned by you so it gives the option of renting it out while enjoying your retirement in a cheaper location (sunny Cyprus, Berlin, wherever).
For others, read this thread. It can happen to you. No matter how ambitious, successful, hardworking, etc. you may be earlier in your career.
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itâs case in my industry and several waves of layoffs in my company since 2 years, aorund twice a year, next one expected in September, I just hope I have save enough as I know that will arrive. but there is the financial part but also the stress even if you are not impacted in first waves, I sometimes expect the situation to stop.
Which industry has layoffs in CH at the moment?
Which doesnât?
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Mine (health care). Yours?
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Civil engineering, electricians and electric engineering, plumbing, environmental engineering, among others. The energy and infrastructures sectors are pretty hot.
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Pharma, banking, IT / SaaS, FMCG, media, etc. They are all downsizing in CH.
Different reasons but all looking at managing or reducing headcount. Opportunities still exist but selectively.
if you have some high specialization or a deemed field demand or having a network or portfolio of client you are good but else there are less roles and more competitive.
part time gigs are still possible as company reduce footprint but still Require capabilities.
Problem with CH has been the strength of the CHF. You cost 20% more than EU counterpart over last 4-5 years before even getting salary increases
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Damn. Iâm really working for the wrong company.
Ageism and being unemployable at 50-55 is real cancer. Iâve had recruiters tell me that they donât even try to place 40+ anymore unless the job description is a carbon copy of their CV.
White collar wonât hire 50+, so what are they to do? Manual labour where anyone younger WILL do a better job?
Or all going the âentrepreneurâ bullshit route? Need to save and invest gas never been higher.
Edit: I am still astounded by the ease people have to suggest âyeah itâs fine, just go to [XYZ country with mosquitoes]â, emigration is not emotionally easy, the friendships, family and emotional roots are strong in 99% of people. Put yourselves in the other personâs shoes and ask yourself âWhat would I DO going to a country I know nothing about, and nobody in, just survive, live out my days?â.
On the other hand, Switzerland is probably a terrible place to be when one hasnât got any money.
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In China ageism starts at 36. That is a nightmare.
Iâm hearing that very few people are hiring for entry positions/junior roles because of AI. Then above 50 youâre not employable.. That start to be a lot of people that wonât find a job.
There is this notion going around for a while, I havenât looked into it myself but I feel this is based on feels. I have a friend in a big law firm, one of the first things AI testers did, back in late 2022 or early 2023 was test some LLMs vs junior law associates, the models wiped the floor with the associates for both speed and accuracy. But 3 years down the line my friend tells me they essentially donât use AI, still. Maybe in tech? Hang on, Iâll ask AI (not kidding!).
Thatâs certainly something Iâve heard a lot about, and
this is a dystopia thatâs not at all inconceivable. I think eventually things will come to a head and thereâll need to be a political solution ignoring economics - and this is the optimistic scenario.
Edit: I did ask AI, the cold hard reality is what we know already: low level admin/data/writing type jobs are at huge risk. Manual jobs, especially those involving doing stuff in the real world (i.e., technicians, construction, maintenance, tradespeople, hospitality), as well as those involving people (eg nursing, physiotherapy), healthcare overall is at a much lower risk overall. Then itâs positions of accountability, as we will for the foreseable future need a human there - one key reason BRK is not in cyber insurance is exactly because liability is hard to pin down - and finally jobs related to relationships like sales and deal-making. Paints a bad picture really, most of these other than tradespeople, hospitality and healthcare are pretty niche already. Oh well, not like thereâs an afterlife to hope for, better make the most of it here anyway!
Thankfully Iâm close to retirement and wonât need to deal with this AI displacing me shit.
The one saviour is that companies seem to be pretty incompetent at deploying AI and so maybe it will mirror the waves of outsourcing: someone has the idea to offshort to Berundi automate with AI, then realises it doesnât work and ends up hiring people back to fix the mess.
The other saving grace is that AI automates tasks and currently jobs are many tasks that are unlikely all to be covered by AI⊠at least for now.
Then I think there might be a backlash as employees push back against and maybe silently sabotage AI efforts.
The area where it is maybe best at right now is coding: and it has had a transformational impact there and weâre only at the beginning.
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@Anna do you have an update in the meantime?
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Weâre unfortunately only at the beginning of the white-collar recession. Itâs too many people with uni degrees expecting to get a high paid 9-to-5 laptop job. These jobs are becoming rare and those who have one, will probably try to make it illegal to be replaced by an AI.
Iâll be teaching my children to be entrepreneurial and seriously consider vocational training. You canât get away with being a corporate drone anymore.
The future looks grim but on the other hand, my future as an asset owner looks great!
My comment with wasnât intended as a casual âjust moveâ but practically it makes sense
- Make money in CH => retire elsewhere (your plan as well)
- I see a LOT of expats with that plan
- And I see quite a lot of expats who wind up moving to a lower cost location when they get fired (as in: employment terminated) in Switzerland (in some cases even during RAV!)
- Iâve always thought that one of the benefits of real estate in Switzerland is that itâs an emergency passive income lever and with rents relatively high and stable / rising here, it could fund a foundation of a life somewhere else (wonât work in my case, my wife is Swiss and she has veto power; plus I love the house we have and the lifestyle (safe, good healthcare - which saved my life), etc. - BUT⊠making $$$ in CH in retiring elsewhere still is a lever which is real
My sentiment exactly. I probably managed to cross the finish line just in time and my wife and I will be set-up to give our upcoming first child a headstart in adult life financially. I donât envy people early in their career now (unless working on cool stuff in tech).
Itâs also going to stimulate even worse behavior by corporate drones. E.g. at a prior company I moved a LOT of jobs to a low cost country (yeah, not nice, I know), substantial cost saving, performance even improved (also from centralization)⊠now the corporate HQ people have woken up and realized THEIR jobs (to a large extent) could be moved there⊠so theyâve started to pull work from a low cost to a high cost location to protect employment there even though it makes no business sense to do so and the company is struggling performance wise.
I suspect with AI, itâs alll going to become even more unpredictable and nasty.
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Second this @Anna
Realize it may be a difficult/painful topic but I greatly appreciate how honest and realistic you described the path youâre on. A very good reality check for all of us and a good balance vs. the idea that weâre all billionaires-in-the-making through FIRE. Hope things are going well and, even if not, perhaps it helps to engage further here.
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