Don't underestimate ageism or women over 50

@Neville Most likely many will become dependent on social welfare in their old age.

This is what I was talking about:

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Did someone consider an age as a target to Fire instead of as fast as possible ?

I think for me it would be more enjoyable that I target age 55. That would let me 19 years until fire. I don’t have to work at 100% and have more time to enjoy my “young” age.

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You guys are scaring me to death. I’m 37 now and just started with VIAC and investing in ETFs. My wife started to work a year ago. When I think about not being able to find jobs at the age of 50 or maybe even 45, that’s scary as hell. My job is currently stable but who knows what happens in few years.

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@ehwhynot Sorry to depress you. On the positive side there are many ways of enjoying your youth that still allow you to put enough money aside for FIRE at 50. My target age was 58 which I belatedly realised was unrealistic and should have been set for 50 with any year of income thereafter a bonus.

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@sreese4u Hi Sherry, Sorry to scare you but better scared now than having a nasty surprise later. I moved to what I thought was the safest industry possible at a time when Swiss banking secrecy was still sacrosanct. No one could have predicted the DOJ succeeding in shaking that up facilitating digitisation etc etc. Now we have deal with the pandemic and need to find our feet in the new normal. Job stability is sadly a short term variable these days. Just do your best and be conscious that agism is a very real phenomena that hopefully will not impact you.

I don’t target an age, nor do I want to FIRE asap.

For me, it’s a seamless and smooth gradient: The more money I have, the less dependent I am on paid work, the more options I have, the more relaxed I become, and so on…

Money is a freedom machine. But it doesn’t go from “trapped” to “free”, for me. :slight_smile:

Let me quote Walter White: “I have spent my whole life scared - frightened of things that could happen, might happen, might not happen. What I came to realize is that fear, that’s the worst of it. That’s the real enemy.”

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I am sorry to hear that, I know it’s difficult to get employment at a certain age, i’ve been at the other side of the table many times and I have to say, I am also reluctant to hire people age 50+ because risks/benefits change drastically for people over 50 due to Swiss laws meant to protect “older” employees but actually doing the opposite.

Have you considered consulting or work on hourly base? I am sure a lot of companies would value your experience but hesitate to commit to full employment. Being self employed might solve your “handicap”,

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I don’t know what comfort you can find in these words but you’re most likely going to be fine: you and your wife have diversified sources of income that are not tied to each other, you seem to have highly transferable skills, your wife’s profession is likely to stay as necessary as it is now in the future and you both have self-employment potential if things come to the worst.

I’d focus on my human capital, keep honing/building useful skills and keeping an eye on different potential ventures just to know my options if I someday need to use them. 37 is a young age.

This, of course, doesn’t intend to downplay Anna’s experience (thanks for sharing!), ageism is a real thing and it’s a good thing to prepare for it but the way to adress it, I’d say, is to keep professional options open. Diversity in human capital works as well as in the stock market.

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@kraphael Thank you for your kind words. It is easier said than done to get independent assignments for companies that don’t already know you. Covid has complicated matters even further. I will of course continue exploring this as it seems a good solution for both parties.

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@Wolverine Well spoken. Fully agree.

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@Anna
How would starting a side-hustle affect your situation? (If you haven’t already done so :slight_smile: )
Is there some incentive coming from unemployement benefits to not seek out too much income from such an avenue?
Mustachian side hustles - Life Hacking - Mustachian Post Community
All I could find was this guide, which tells me it only sometimes makes sense:
Zwischenverdienst: Arbeitslos und doch arbeiten? | Beobachter

@trotro Apologies for my belated reply. Unemployment benefits are over since a long time for me. Before Covid you got apps 18 months and after that you are on your own.

I’m sorry to hear that @Anna, social welfare is one of the unsettling thing about this country (which, realistically, has very few others :slight_smile: ) and I fully share @sreese4u terror.

I would second @kraphael suggestion, in my field of work I’m battered every month by “recruiters”, often from the UK/London (beats me), that are looking at “selling bodies” to large multinational companies (i.e. mine).
Oftentimes there is such a rush to fill positions for starting projects that many concerns that would be valid for employment become secondary or nill.

You have an advantage of great CV, as far as I can understand, and immediate availability. Plus you can negotiate your hourly wage to make it attractive (recruiters will have a range given by the clients, ask them).

It has, but it also has advantages… your territory for customers has expanded thanks to work-from-home, as well as your flexibility on % working hours is a boon to companies that wouldn’t otherwise be able or willing to get part-time freelancers.

That said, for employment there is full-scale ageism where I work. You see it every single day in comments such as “ah, that guy/gal is doing nothing, just waiting for the pension”, “s/he lacks the energy required to lead this project”, “this guy/gal is so expensive, what value is he adding?”, “I can replace him/her with two juniors and get more done”. Truly disgusting.

Even though managers are 90% middle-aged non-diverse same-ethnicity men, they seem to believe while uttering those words that they are the only ones exempt from the comments above…

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very sorry to hear your story, it is a fate expecting most of us below 40 right now. so I agree good to be ready or at least planned for this situation.

I have read that you considered moving to TRNC but have you also considered moving to Turkey or another cheaper country close to Europe? (or not close depending on your preferences) There are a lot of people from EU and the UK, relocating to Turkey for sunny weather, more affordable housing and waaay less cost of living. I know it isnt the ideal case, but I suggest you give a thought.

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@lowyield Sadly few recruiters contact me and the UK based ones have not .delivered for me. Those in Switzerland that I have proactively reached out to have told me openly that no-one wants to hire a woman of 56 years of age, even for non-qualified positions. I would be a great administrator, secretary or receptionist at a low wage but it seems I am past by my “sell by date”, do not have the right network, fail to sound convincing that I would be happy with menial tasks for minimum wage etc.

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@noirmont Thanks for your suggestion. TRNC is actually in theory part of Turkey. It is the Turkish occupied northern part of Cyprus but they require an expensive quarantine since last March and have been repeatedly completely closed down with curfews and limitations on physical movements. Cyprus is indeed very sunny, has cheap accommodation and the cost of living is ridiculously low compared to Switzerland.

Well I am from Turkey indeed, and I very well know differences between TRNC and Turkey. The health, banking and all commercial and social aspects of TRNC is way less developed than Turkey, that’s why I suggest Turkey over TRNC but anyways apparently you have looked into it and didnt fancy.
p.s. No quarantine or whatsoever in between CH-Turkey and having direct flights everyday from Basel, Geneve and Zurich.

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@noirmont Thank you for pointing out the differences between TRNC and Turkey. TRNC clearly lacks the sophistication of Turkey.

@Anna have you consider writing about your situation? In a blog (your own), to discuss this topic? I’m sure there is a large interested audience for it, and you could help monetize it a bit?

Just a food for thought on options…

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