Degiro discussion

so finally in this case Interactive Brokers would be a better option i guess…

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For people planning to move, I think IB is better indeed.

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I recently closed my Swiss Degiro account and opened a German one, even when I live in Switzerland.
I didn’t have many positions to move, so that was a minor point.

Reason was that this way i can buy VWCE at Xetra for free, have no exchange connection fees and no dividend costs with my custody account. I convert the CHF to EUR at IB.

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If you already exchange money at IB, why not use IB to buy your ETFs? You could have access to better ETFs and save on dividend taxes.

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I do, for the most part, buy those (VT). But I like to keep a small part at Degiro too.

I very recently (December 2021) opened a DEGIRO account in CHF from Switzerland.
Auto FX was/is(?) 0.10 % and manual was 0.02% + 10 EUR.
This is still stated as of today in the DEGIRO FAQ.

Accordingly to the official PDF valid beginning 2022-01-05 they increased this more than twelve-fold from 0.02% to 0.25%. Auto FX was increased from 0.1% to 0.25%, which is more than double!

Am I correct or do you have any other information? Support did not react to my inquiry yet.

I received no notification about the changes. If this is true, I lost all my trust in Degiro.

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IBKR is for free now and much lower fees.

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Found the same new fees from the FAQ page now:

The AutoFX fee is 0.25% of the amount converted.

Alternatively, you can enable manual currency handling, and convert a lump sum manually to trade with. The fee for a manual currency conversion is 10.00€ + 0.25% of the amount converted.

Thanks for this information. I would neve have seen it, as I only use Degiro for small amounts…

I guess it is one more reason tu use IBKR.

I have a CHF Account with Degiro for quite some time.

They did announce that they were updating their AGB and fees back in December IIRC via email. The raise for AutoFX was communicated as part of that as well.

0.25% is still quite low, especially compared with Swiss brokers.

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Agree. Unless you invest tens of thousands per year, the difference is not that big.

Yes, it is correct that they changed it - ironically as part of the ’ DeGiro goes Zero’ campaing.
Also, they quietly removed the option of opening a custody account. Existing customers can keep it (for now- who knows).
Exactly for such repeating changes with short or no notice, I left my previous broker. It is very annoying.

And still IB is an order of magnitude lower.

I have the feeling, that whenever IB changes their fee structure, I am better off than before while whenever new kids on the block (be it Revolut, DEGIRO, even DKB) announce that they change their fees everyone is worse off. I guess that’s the business model of the ‘free lunch’ providers.

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How do you transfer EUR between IB and Degiro?

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If you have a degiro account in Eurozone, your connected bank account should be in Euro. So, withdraw Euro from IB into your bank account, deposit them to degiro. It is not possible to deposit or withdraw Euro to/from degiro.ch.

Ok, that makes sense. Do you know a good and mustachian EUR account which is available from Switzerland? Would be nice to have zero fees for transfering any EUR amount

Yuh :slight_smile: Or DKB, but they started to introduce account fees.

Hello everyone

I’dlike to get your help on two topics:

  1. I have a Degiro Account and buy in the moment Monthly for about 2000CHF worth of VWRL at the Euronext Amsterdam stock exchange.

Now since Degiro uppered the fee for currency exchange to 0.25% it got expensive to buy the VWRL over Euronext Amsterdam. (In total its 0.5 if i am fire because I have to convert it back to CHF later)

Now i thought about buying VWRL over the Swiss Stock Exchange. To only downturn is that the spreads are higher. But it’s still way less then the 0.5% vor currency exchange.

Do I miss something here? Higher taxes, currency risks or something like that?

  1. I want to change my asset allocation as follows:

70% VWRL / Vanguard FTSE Allworld Distributing CHF

20% Bond traded in CHF / Is it smart to hold it in CHF? I’ve read something about currency hedging but didn’t got the point :slight_smile:

10% SMIM / UBS ETF Distributing (30 middle sized companies) CHF

I want to choose a Bond that keeps a high value when the market’s crash, so I can rebalance during a downturn. I thought about a G7 Bond?

Thanks in advance for any help!

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The 0.25% work out to be CHF 5 per buy. I am just putting the number there. Make sure it’s worth your time fretting over that.

There are ways to optimize your currency conversion:

  1. If you stay with DeGiro: Go with VWCE, which is an accumulating version of VWRL. This way you eliminate the conversion fees on the dividend payments.
  2. When you eventually want to sell your ETFs to FIRE, transfer it to a different broker of your choice that allows you to pay out in EUR. Or maybe DeGiro will allow it in a few years.
  3. Some people have opened a DeGiro account in Germany or Ireland, where the default currency is EUR. You can exchange the money yourself before sending money there. Same interface, different country. You may have to close your Swiss account.

You don’t have free buying on SWX. It’s at least 6 CHF per buy + the worse spread (Was sind die Kosten einer Anlage? | Gebühren | DEGIRO).
You’ll pay more unless you switch to investing every two or three months.

Can’t help you with this, it would be better IMHO to split your question. Read the threads about asset allocation on this forum and the repost the question there.

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Thanks for your answer!

For a bit more of context, in he moment I invest 2’000CHF a month but this will change, this or next year to about 5’000CHF. So this will higher my monthly cost to around 12.50CHF and with adding the selling cost’s its 25CHF. I mean it’s not so much but I think of it as it would add 0.5% to the TER of VWRL and if I can avoid it, I will.

As far as I can see the cost of buying an ETF on Degiro on any stock exchange will cost me 3 Euros. I tried it in the App so it should be correct.

I want to make the right choices now so I can avoid any switches between brokers/currency’s/ETF’s while I am in the accumulation phase.

  1. That’s a point but I like the distributing one’s because I think it will help me later when I have a few 100’000CHF invested to stay the course. I mean this is just a psychological thing but I like the payout’s, it’s like a salary raise :sweat_smile: And I can use it to rebalance.

  2. It can also go the opposite way maybe they higher the exchange/transfer costs. And I don’t want my future me to fix this when I can avoid it now.

  3. Maybe that’s a good idea for me. Is there any downside to have an account in Germany or even Ireland? But in the other hand I have a custody account and I think I will lose it when I change to Germany because you can only open basic accounts for now.

I just wanted to know if I do something stupid when I buy it in CHF over SWX. I don’t want to have a few 100’000CHF invested and realize at the end of my accumulation phase that I did a big mistake.
But maybe I switch to IB anyway when my Investment’s reach a 100’000CHF.

For my second question I will open an other thread in the right section.