interesting… I personally think it’s a silly rule as I didn’t know that I would buy a house in 2017 after some Pillar 2 buy-in in 2016.
But I guess we all agree by now that Mr. Market would provide higher returns so Pillar 2 buy-ins might not be worthwhile in the first place?
Compared to 100% stock yes, but some people like to have lower volatility.
Hmm weird, I think if I look at the dashboard of my fund provider it does list X - buyin as available for primary residence withdrawal.
Well, technically you are allowed to withdraw it, but you will have to pay the consequence (retroactive taxes). Normally pension funds know this and will warn you about the tax issues.
Hi there,
Wanted to have some of your always interesting advice on my situation as I am in the process of choosing the way I will pay the appartement I am buying.
Our situation :
The appartement is 900k CHF and my girlfriend and I want to put the 20% equity without touching our 2nd and 3rd pillar -> 180k CHF
We have different option with insurances or banks with approximatively the same interest rates :
SARON : 0.8%
5 years : 0.8%
7 years : 0.9%
10 years : 0.95%
15 years : 1.25%
We also want to include an option to be able to sell the apartment without paying fees if the mortgage is not over at this moment (approx. +0.05% to the rates mentioned).
From there many questions :
Do you recommend to split the mortgage (decrease risk of interest rate when renewing but increase dependency to the bank/insurance) or having a single mortgage (opposite) ?
What king of amortization do you recommend ? As we have enough revenue to reimburse the mortgage and fill our 3rd pillar. I precise that my girlfriend is risk adverse and won’t invest and that due to my position at work I can’t invest more that what I have already.
Thanks in advance for your tips 
Since you will lend 80% you will have no choice but get two mortgages. One for 66% and one for the rest. Just make sure to set the same expiry time for both, banks usually try to trick you into different durations so you can’t easily switch providers.
I went with the Pillar 3a indirect amortization but wouldn’t do that again because the banks Pillar 3a has close to zero interest rates. That way I’m missing out on a product like VIAC for the 3rd Pillar…
0.8% for 5 years sounds rather high, I had in mind that 0.5% was still gettable for 5 years. Try to talk with banks face to face instead of using 3rd party mortgage brokers. I had good experiences playing a Raiffeisen against the cantonal bank which funded the construction, that drove down the 5 year rate by 0.3% (0.94% instead of 1.25%)
@MrCheese
You can get one mortgage for the whole amount. The 66/80% thing is just regarding amortization requirements.
Plus, check out my other post regarding 3a amortization:
I do not get why you would not touch 3rd pillar. This is an easy way to realise the tax advantage and further allows you to split in more than 5 withdrawals over your lifetime, which will reduce your total tax burden on the withdrawals (the only minor downside: the former 3a money would no longer be excluded from wealthtax).
One may also use the 3A to repay a mortgage at any time so you are not bound to using it only at inception. Also pledging your accounts (which counts as core funds) allows you to increase the size of the mortgage while keeping your money invested and benifiting from the interest tax deductions all together.
Thank you very much for all of your answers.
Is it correct that with a indirect amortization, the bank checks after 15 years how much is the apartment worth and take in your 3rd pillar the necessary amount to have the remaining 67% ?
I believe that if you have it in other source you can decide whether is the pillar 3 or other source.
But yes, there is a rule to have paid X amount before retirement.(there is a comment from Cortana above)
Does any one have experience demonstrating whether the rates obtained by Moneypark (or any advisor) is better or worse than the ones you get when negotiating alone ?
I would consider paying 500 chf for saving my time and getting a few offers but not if I get worse offers.
They say they work with 100 different banks, pension funds and insurances, but count each Raffeisen branch individually lol. So in reality they don’t check that many institutions. Plus the MP employer won’t contact all the banks and focus on those he has good relationships with.
I know this because one of my best friends works at Moneypark.
Thank you, very valuable insight.
Thanks for this post. Does anyone know if banks accept pledge of 3rd pillar for the 10% as opposed to withdrawl and cash payment? I asked UBS a while back and the advisor said that with them it had to be withdrawl and cash payment. I am not convinced the advisor truly knew for sure
I did a simulation with UBS recently and it included a max mortgage simulation for which I only had to provide 16% cash instead of 20% the missing 4% being pledged from the 3rd pillar so yes it is possible but it all depends on your capacity to pay the interests of the mortgage at 5%. If you pledge with UBS though you have to have the 3rd pillar with them, they do not accept external 3rd pillars as pledge.
I asked a similar question here recently, maybe it helps.
https://forum.mustachianpost.com/t/viac-which-non-individual-strategy-have-you-chosen/5092/8?u=rolandinho
This is possible and I am using the same approach (pledged existing Pillar 3A accounts) for my mortgage with UBS.
bump up.
I’ve had a session with moneypark where they explained how they are the best on the market.
Can I have an opinion of the mustachians to see if this is true?
they also expect 980 CHF upfront for “the service” and estimating values of future objects, etc…
What do you guys think?
I would try Key4 first, because they are free.
Read the small written parts of their contracts. If you don’t close the deal with them, they give you a 2500-3000 CHF penalty and things like that.
I would also check a free one first like https://valuu.ch/
And if going with moneypark, probably go through neon for half price: Mortgages with MoneyPark