Credit Suisse (CH) 130/30 Swiss -what do you think?!

THanks a lot, very interesting

You have a point. Iā€™m also quite worried ot putting all eggs in one basket. Thatā€™s why th willingness of exploring some different

FAANG, is very scaring. We complain of having around 60% in the big three in the Swiss market, but the FAANG+Tesla represent somehow even more, taking into account the variability they could have :frowning:

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Iā€™m personally not that conviced on the statement that for FIRE you need only growth. Very important parameter for me is the max annual drop as well the covariance matrix (for whom know what it isā€¦many people I guess here anyway).

First, I love the FI but Iā€™m tremendously scare of the RE (do you imagine staying all day long 24/24 7/7 365/365 at home with your wife in a year in which the S&P500 is losing 20%ā€¦people no!!!).

Second, I was never fun in my life of following the path indicated by all other people. Obviously it is the easiest way, yet it does not warranty you you want to arrive where you want. I like vey much to explore and critically analyze various options.

Btw, I finally decided to open an fund investment plan with CS for this 130/30 fund, with 125 CHF/month, I give 1-2 years and letā€™s see what happen. Overall, it is not that crazy amount over 2 years, so even if that goes extremely bad I should not die.

On the porfolio otpimization, Iā€™m very much in line with @TeaCup, saying that a proper analysis has to be done and not blindly going to VT.

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The concentration in the Swiss index is high, but Iā€™m not sure if you are right about VT. My googling skills reveal the top ten holdings in VT are about 14% in total, which includes F,A,A, G & T but not N. (Full disclosure: I do not have any VT. Iā€™m a VWRL + others sort of person.)

If you are concerned about diversification, do you realise that your 130/30 fund has the top three holdings making up 40% of assets (NestlƩ, Roche, Novartis)? Might be cheaper to shadow-track it yourself.

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Yes, the top 3 are still big portion. Sahdow-tracking it is something I do not want to do (on top of it, it is going to cost crazy with CS, since I want to keep part of the investments out of Degiro) and that anyway that can only be done when too late, or ain any case 1 month after is needed. The promise of the 130/30 is, in fact, that it is manage actively in order to long 130% the best positions and short 30% the worse performers, Timing here is keyā€¦and thatā€™s why they get paid.

As I read also in other threads, Iā€™m not the only one concerned by overwarming of the stockprices and FAANG+T are the ones pulling the markets up like crazy.
Not considering my 2P and 3P, I have around 20% of my actual portfolio invested in CH (around 18% in stock, out of which around 5% in the 130/30, planning to up to 10-12% in 2021 and 2% in public+corporate bonds), so thatā€™s not extremely crazy for the moment. In any case, I do not want to overpass the 25% in the CH market.

Whatā€™s about you?

Regarding the Swiss market, I really like the concept of the SLI, with the capping at 9% or 4.5%, when looking at higher diversification. 30 companies instead of the 20 of the SMI it is also a point in these regards.

It is going a bit against the 130/30 index
I was telling above, but this is kind of personal fact: Iā€™m black or white man. If I go fully passive and fully diversified I want to be going truly in these direction. If I go active (paying an additional fee for the management), I just want the highest return and do not care much of what they do.
Perhaps a more grey approach would be goodā€¦but thatā€™s not me sorry

Finance is very much influenced by psicology (Shiller dixit) and we need to sleep in peace :slight_smile:

I think itā€™s the other way aroundā€¦if you go active youā€™d better have a very good understanding of what they do and have solid arguments for why itā€™s going to deliver, other than ā€œthey did well in the pastā€ā€¦
ā€œnot caring much of what they doā€ is the whole reason for the existence of passive funds ā€¦

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Yes and not. Meaning that, as discussed above, the fee is partial fixed and partially dependant upon the spread between the return of the 130/30 fund and the SPI. In theory thatā€™s kind of incetive for the fund manager to properly perform.

On the other hand, you are right: you better get informed and study before just delivering your money.

P.S. As also discussed above, Iā€™m with you about active funds from big swiss bancks (UBS, CS, ā€¦) behaving very bad and never in their life even try to copy the performance of the benchmark. Thatā€™s kind of legalized scam, in my humble opinion

Itā€™s an incentive for the fund manager to take more risks. In the best case, both the bank and the customer win. If it goes wrong, the bank still wins (helloooo fixed fee) and the customer takes the loss.

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Fully agreeā€¦ CS is not yet making volunteering :slight_smile:
Letā€™s hope the fund manager is paied by CS only with the variable part, so that himself is forced to try to overperform.
An CSā€¦in Italian we say the following: the dealer never loses (il banco non perde mai). I think it applies very much

If that would be the case, no sane person would apply for this job. This would mean if he underperforms the BM he doesnā€™t get any salary at allā€¦