Country to retire [2025]

Life Hacking
21

As a Greek citizen I confirm this.

Ideally I would like to retire in Greece and a bit earlier but expenses now here in Switzerland with two kids under two are crazy and savings rate has been low.

Another thing about Greece is some tax relief cases like the Non-Dom Regime for Pensioners:

  • The individual must not have been a Greek tax resident for five out of the six years prior to transferring their tax residence to Greece.

  • The individual must transfer their tax residence from a state with which Greece has an agreement on administrative cooperation in the field of taxation.

  • Tax Benefits:

  • A flat tax rate of 7% is applied to foreign-sourced income, including pensions, with exhaustion of the tax liability for this income.

  • The tax is paid annually in one installment until the last working day of July.

  • The regime applies for a maximum of 15 fiscal years.

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22

In the Southern part only though:

The qualifying regions are Sicily, Calabria, Sardinia, Campania, Basilicata, Abruzzo, Molise and Puglia.

23

Do you happen to have done a comparison with France?

24

No, but taxes in France are insane… And I don’t see any advantage to live in a country where wealthy people are considered like robber and where success seems to be a problem…

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25

One other thing to consider before retirement is that with fertility rate of 1.0 and growing resistance against immigration, somebody will have to cover for the elderly care and for the state apparatus. Unless we have humanoid robots and AI overlords by then.

What I’m saying is, future will surprise us, but it’s safer to settle down in a country that is in a good financial shape, otherwise you might become the scapegoat.

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26

Including the bad stuff I wrote about our Motherland? :wink:

Isn’t that a bit overblown? How does it bother you? Also how do you define “wealthy”, in this forum we’re more likely to become “millionaires next door” than filthy rich (still need to write a post about that in the coffee section). Drawing on personal experiences of the few millionaires (5-10mn net worth) who I know, you wouldn’t spot any of them in a crowd. Yes, they dress better, they have better houses, their kids go to elite schools, but nothing outrageous or eye popping. They don’t go grocery shopping on flying golden unicorns, in fact they don’t go grocery shopping at all unless it’s for fun, they pay people to do it for them :wink:

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27

Mindset determines the course for the future. The economic prosperity, the taxation scheme. Would be a bummer if you settle down in a place that is getting gradually more hostile towards people who had the audacity to save up some money.

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28

Taxes, sure, from the tone of the posts I wondered if you were worried of a mob with pitchforks and “Eat the Rich” placards outside your house :wink:

Taxes don’t change overnight, and mindsets take decades to shape. Also, in democratic systems laws don’t get applied retroactively. You won’t see Norway bringing taxes down in an instant and cutting down on state support because that’s not how the society thinks, or wants. Politicians don’t have the capacity for long-term planning, and firebrand disruptive politics usually fail, so it’s possible to have a fairly decent idea of how things are likely to go. And if the wind changes…most of us here are foreigners, so moving (again) is always an option to be weighed.

29

Yes and no.

I’ve always had a negative view of France, which is unfortunate because I’ve met warm, enterprising, and honest people there. For example, I’ve had sports coaching services and met the members of these services at seminars. These entrepreneurs and customers are all ambitious. But, from the discussions I’ve had with them, they have the impression that their country doesn’t support them, especially when it comes to developing their business through exorbitant taxes.

In France, taxes on personal investments are high. So, unless you use the PEA, personal securities accounts are not a good idea. We all have a personal securities account in this forum.

I’m not an expert, but I don’t feel safe in France. I’ve had to attend a few seminars in France, especially in Lyon, and I’ve never felt safe. I’ve been suspicious of everyone. Maybe it’s because of how the French media talks about negative things a lot, just for attention. I’ve never felt this insecure anywhere else but in France.

My work shows that French people who have savings (I’m not talking about billionaire or multi-millionaire) are often bothered by the tax authorities for no reason. It seems not good to be a rich French citizen.

Because of this, I don’t see France as an option.I’m also of Italian descent, and I don’t see Italy as an option either. There’s too much corruption and an unstable government.It’s unfortunate, but the food is good, and I’ve always enjoyed visiting my parents’ homeland.

This is only my personal opinion and maybe I’m totally wrong about how I percieved France with my little personnal experience and I would be happy to be wrong.

Maybe I’m living in a carefree world in Switzerland?

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30

Let’s not generalize about entire countries…

Was a somewhat uncalled for generalization IMO.

I personally probably wouldn’t retire there because CH spoils you, but you have to understand every country works differently.

In France you use tax measures to lower your tax rate, there’s the PEA but also many other things.

Also the flat 30% tax (13% income tax, 17% social security) on personal investment (outside of tax advantaged accounts) isn’t that high given the benefits it provides (it pays for healthcare, unemployment among others).

Also what are you doing in Lyon to feel insecure… (lived there for 8y, still going many times per year, it’s like any other random large European city)

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31

Dunno, I’ve friends and relatives who live in France and love it, they’re not savers though and believe The State should take care of everything, so it’s more of a stance on life thing. I can’t feel safe when I depend on others, something I suspect many of us here share. If something good comes, great, if something bad comes, I’ll be prepared. Personally haven’t felt threatened anywhere, and the one place I got broken into and robbed, and physically threatened (separate occasions) was Cambridge, UK, go figure. Ok, granted, haven’t been to really bad places in the world.

Dunno much about Italy either, have several Italian friends, have been there loads of times. The food is indeed god-tier, probably the only country’s food I’d rate as equal or even better than Greek (but that’s de gustibus non est disputandum, an Indian friend said “It’s bland”), it may be corrupt and politically crazy but I’m Greek so my bar is pretty low.

Countries like Balkan, Central, Eastern and Baltic have shown the old world how to do it, they had to suffer through communism to learn the lessons, but they did, and are eager to work. Old world Europe feels tired, too many good years I guess! Many Greeks set up shop in Bulgaria, for instance, as it’s apparently a 15 minute online application while in Greece it’d take months of shitty bureaucracy, with the state fighting you at every step of the way. It’s a common theme similar to how you describe France. There was a period where freelancers had to pay 83% in taxes and insurance in Greece, not making the number up. Now they have a stupid system where the state pre-taxes according to a threshold (10k/year…) and then invites people to challenge it, who cares if they drown in paper and it take years to sort through millions of challenges, and more years to return the unfair tax to people, the public sector needs to work, right? We even have “presumptive” (imputed income - just learnt this term through google translate) taxes: if you have a car of 1800cc or more, a boat, a pool, other luxury items then the state taxes according to what they think you must be making (and not declaring) in order to afford such luxuries, that’s clearly undemocratic, stupid, and a blatant admission that people are evading tax and the state can’t stop it. Maybe I am crazy, eat baked beans and live in a goat shed because I want to have a Ferrari, it isn’t the state’s place to judge how I spend.

Re Switzerland, for me Switzerland is a golden mean between the US and Europe in many ways, borrowing good things from both sides of the pond, and doing away with the bad. It’s certainly a nice bubble to be in. Maybe I’m wrong, for sure the Swiss seem to be complaining a lot, and I don’t comment because I don’t know. Eg regarding healthcare, I hear “things were MUCH better 20 years ago”, which I can’t picture partly because I don’t know and partly because I take things with a pinch of salt when people complain as I have a generally low opinion of people’s memories and critical thinking ability. “Maybe things were better because your BODY was better 20 years ago, and it colours everything you say” is an easy response, but an even easier (and better) is keeping my mouth shut (another rare thing these days).

Depending on the state is a cosy feeling, I just don’t have much trust in most states. My Scandinavian friends tell me “we’re happy to pay taxes because the state does a GREAT job”.

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32

True, and the place shall be ‘with a population of no more than 20.000 inhabitants.’ which may be another limiting factor.

However this could be interesting:

"The taxpayer who will be subject to the new tax regime will also benefit from two additional exemptions:

1. he/she will not be obliged to declare to the Italian tax authorities his/her assets (bank accounts, financial assets, real estate, etc.) held abroad (exemption from the so-called “fiscal monitoring”);
2. the said assets held abroad will not be subject to the Italian wealth taxes (exemption from the so-called “IVAFE” and “IVIE”)."

From the above, I understand that securities sold to support living should not be subject to capital gain tax regime ?

33

But you can get in such villages property for 1€ as our media reported the last few years. (But probably not aimed at old retirees but young families though).

34

No worries, I’ll be an old man with a hot young woman :laughing:

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35

You know your :moneybag: won’t last long with this setup no ? :grimacing:

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36

Cyprus is a great country to retire to.

Zero capital gains tax :slight_smile:

Great weather all year. European, good infrastructure, nice people.
Costs are moderate.

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37

And you can relax on the beach while she works. Great plan! :+1:

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38

If she is hot and young, she might expect not to have to work :slight_smile:

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39

Hello everyone, I am on the holy grail too (BTW who is not!) - glad to see this topic.

UAE - Dubai provides freelance visa but not tax residency!! So, be attentive - if IBKR/another brokerage, bank etc. demand a document from the UAE government. Curious to know if they demand! Usually a photocopy of the residence permit and a recent utility bill will do. Thanks.

Costs: 6,000 CHF for 2 years

The freelance license fee is AED 7,520, which covers only the license cost per year .

For the visa, you’ll need: - Establishment card: AED 2,000 (renewed annually) - Employment visa options: • 1-year visa: AED 4,600 • 2-year visa: AED 5,042

Additional visa-related costs include: - Emirates ID: AED 390 - Security deposit: AED 2,500 - Medical checkup: AED 760

Tax residency certificate from the government

For Individuals

  1. Stay Report: A report from the General Directorate of Residency and Foreigners Affairs or ICA showing at least 180 days of residency in the UAE.
40

I was thinking more on the 1 euro property :sweat_smile: old wealthy man with a young woman equals a lot of kids :grin: